Challenging bureaucracy and upholding my right to protect my information.

mouseymousey99

Sorry I don't understand this. I think you are trying to create an area of conflict here. If I were to be handling your case this would make me highly suspicous.
Why do you object so strongly? Do you really think you are a special case, if so why? Do you think you are going to be treated in any different way. I hope people who really need help are not made to wait while we all go through this pantomine...

frugallass

they need to see and record proof - on paper - in order to provide an 'audit-trail' of your claim. Word of mouth can't be filed away for future reference.

I wouldn't pay petty cash to my colleagues without an official receipt - their word or my bosses word isn't good enough when the auditors want to know why I gave money away with no receipt

It's a similar concept

Alleycat

The person you have seen on the front desk will not be the decision maker. The verification framework which was introduced by the Department for Work and Pensions is intended to cut fraud, provide a clearly defined papertrail for audit purposes and enable correct decision making.

As real1314 has said, the officer who writes down the details could make a simple clerical error which could end up with you being under or overpaid, the details may be lost etc. This would give rise to appeals and requests for backdates on the basis of official error. With paperwork being copied (most often immediately scanned) and stamped with a verification stamp (needs to be dated and signed by the officer accepting the paperwork into the office) there is much less of a margin for error.

Copies of evidence needs to be kept on file for future reference, to prevent fraud and to protect against error or appeals.

Quite simple really. Just let them do their job and you will get your JSA.

alison999

dmg24 wrote: »

So you want them to pay you JSA, but you refuse to fulfil a simple requirement?

Is there a reason that you wish for them not to have copies of your documents? Do you have something to hide?

No one on here can say what would happen if you went to appeal, but my (relatively educated) opinion is that you would lose as you have failed to comply with the claim conditions.

:T completely agree, i co sign this

[Deleted User]

zootet wrote: »

Hi,
I've made a claim for JSA and they wanted proof of my bank balances, I
took along documentary evidence of the balances to the job centre for
my primary interview. They wanted to photocopy my statements and
identification and payslips. I refused, saying that "you (the
jobcentreplus employee sitting infront of me at the interview) can see
the documents, and can verify that you have seen them and the balances
etc are all as stated". Interviewer said they would write down the
details, that documents had been seen and the balances seen, as I
requested, but it goes to a processing centre, who will make a
decision on it.

I heard back from the "processing" saying (to cut a long story short)
they acknowledge the lady in the jobcentre has seen my documents and
has noted down the balances. But that they still require my
financial statements to be photocopied. They have not mentioned my
identity documents being photocopied - apparently they are satisfied
with my refusal to allow those to be photocopied.

My POV is that I don't want my documents photocopied, the JSA
requirement is that you have a bank balance under £6K and I have
shown evidence of this to the jobcentrestaff to verify I am telling
the truth.

If I insist not to allow copies to be taken, and they refuse my claim
on this singular issue alone, and I appeal their decision..... Who
will win?

Also if anyone knows, if I lose the appeal would I be then allowed (by the appeal panel) to hand over and allow copies to be made and have the claim backdated or would that be the end of it and I would have to make a new claim and lose out on the money I missed whilst waiting for the appeal to take place?

How does the whole appeal thing work, who makes up the panel, or single person? How long does it take to get an appeal? If you don't like the appeal decision, I suppose you then (if you want) appeal that into the court system?

thanks.

Its a simple equation,if you want the benefits then you provide the information in the way that they want it,If you`re not prepared to do that then dont bother claiming.
I`m wondering what makes you think you are different to millions of others?

Errata

The officer who writes down the details could deliberately get them wrong. This has happened in the past and this is why photocopying is done.

[Deleted User]

john539 wrote: »

People in Admin will cover themselves at every step, they'll copy everything & anything even if it's not necessary.

99.9% of Jobcentre/government staff don't know, because they follow like sheep.

If you question or refuse, all it does is put their backs up as you are questioning their authority, knowledge & ability to do the job.

Very few people question or refuse these basic requests & government staff now take it for granted, that's why they just carry on regardless of your reasonable & sensible objections.

Just look at the data losses within government.

Certainly if you push it, once it gets to someone who really know what they are doing, they'll cave in.

Sorry but that final sentence is just wrong,it would never happen.As for the rest you are being totally unfair on people who do a difficult job and offer the best service they can WITHIN the rules

real1314

zootet wrote: »

But do you have the actual law or regulation which says that?

No. I don't have the laws. It will be recorded (I would think) as a power of the Secretary of State.
To be clear: There is no "law" that says specifically that you have to provide your bank statements to be photocopied. If there were laws to cover every such eventuality, there would need to be about 10 million extra lawyers and 10 million extra civil servants.
The Secretary of State has powers to require various compliances. These powers can only be challenged in court.
You seem to be determined to find something, but the fact is you won't - it's a variable power.

What's more, there are numerous parts of english law that cannot be referred to other than by precedent. That's how it works.

john539 says they'll cave in. I suggest he's giving great advice if you want to spend a few months in protracted argument before finally finding that you will not be getting your money.

Why don't you just give it a go? Let us know how you go on.

alison999

Errata wrote: »

The officer who writes down the details could deliberately get them wrong. This has happened in the past and this is why photocopying is done.

especially when he could be their friend

ben500

Perhaps the op might not be so objective to supplying photocopies if there was the remotest chance that his information was to be kept securely.