Challenging bureaucracy and upholding my right to protect my information.

zootet

Hi,
I've made a claim for JSA and they wanted proof of my bank balances, I
took along documentary evidence of the balances to the job centre for
my primary interview. They wanted to photocopy my statements and
identification and payslips. I refused, saying that "you (the
jobcentreplus employee sitting infront of me at the interview) can see
the documents, and can verify that you have seen them and the balances
etc are all as stated". Interviewer said they would write down the
details, that documents had been seen and the balances seen, as I
requested, but it goes to a processing centre, who will make a
decision on it.

I heard back from the "processing" saying (to cut a long story short)
they acknowledge the lady in the jobcentre has seen my documents and
has noted down the balances. But that they still require my
financial statements to be photocopied. They have not mentioned my
identity documents being photocopied - apparently they are satisfied
with my refusal to allow those to be photocopied.

My POV is that I don't want my documents photocopied, the JSA
requirement is that you have a bank balance under £6K and I have
shown evidence of this to the jobcentrestaff to verify I am telling
the truth.

If I insist not to allow copies to be taken, and they refuse my claim
on this singular issue alone, and I appeal their decision..... Who
will win?

Also if anyone knows, if I lose the appeal would I be then allowed (by the appeal panel) to hand over and allow copies to be made and have the claim backdated or would that be the end of it and I would have to make a new claim and lose out on the money I missed whilst waiting for the appeal to take place?

How does the whole appeal thing work, who makes up the panel, or single person? How long does it take to get an appeal? If you don't like the appeal decision, I suppose you then (if you want) appeal that into the court system?

thanks.

dmg24

So you want them to pay you JSA, but you refuse to fulfil a simple requirement?

Is there a reason that you wish for them not to have copies of your documents? Do you have something to hide?

No one on here can say what would happen if you went to appeal, but my (relatively educated) opinion is that you would lose as you have failed to comply with the claim conditions.

healy

It would be more sensible to just follow the rules and regulations like 99.99% of people do. It sounds like alot of fuss about nothing to me.

zootet

The claim conditions are that I have less than £6K, I have shown evidence of this to them and satisfied that condition.
How can I be hiding anything by showing them the documents they have asked to see?
But I'm not going to get into an argument over this, I have asked my question and given all the facts, and I await the responses, helpful and unhelpful alike. Good day to you, dmg

Oh and as Healy says "rules and regulations" are very interesting to me, I'd be surprised if there was some regulation that said they have the right to insist on photocopying my documents, but if anyone knows of the ACTUAL reference and source for any such rule or regulation then kindly supply it.

real1314

I think that requirements for evidence fall under a "Secretary of State Decision" (SofS) which an officer of the DWP can use to require evidence.
There is no right of appeal against such decisions, but you can challenge them in court.
I'd suspect you have no chance at all of winning such a case as the SofS will state that the requirements for evidence are necessary to prevent fraud which in itself is a potential threat to the economy of the nation.

All imho.

dmg24

Could I suggest that perhaps your time would be better spent jobseeking, rather than challenging quite legitimate procedures?

Again, if you have nothing to hide, why create such a fuss?

zootet

real1314 wrote: »

I think that requirements for evidence fall under a "Secretary of State Decision" (SofS) which an officer of the DWP can use to require evidence.
There is no right of appeal against such decisions, but you can challenge them in court.
I'd suspect you have no chance at all of winning such a case as the SofS will state that the requirements for evidence are necessary to prevent fraud which in itself is a potential threat to the economy of the nation.

All imho.

Of course my point is that I have provided such evidence, to the DWP, I have just refused to allow them to photocopy it. Do you have anything to say that they have the right to photocopy the evidence I have presented to them?

Conor_3

Well the rules and procedures in place state they have to. You of course are perfectly within your rights to refuse to let them and they're perfectly within their rights to refuse payment because you've not complied with the terms.

real1314

zootet wrote: »

Of course my point is that I have provided such evidence, to the DWP, I have just refused to allow them to photocopy it. Do you have anything to say that they have the right to photocopy the evidence I have presented to them?

Yes, the rule is that you must provide evidence to satisfy your claim to the satisfaction of the officer making the decision on behalf of the secretary of state. In your case they will most likely want a photocopy to avoid the potential for a trascription error (or numerous other security / accuracy concern). Given that millions of claims are processed every year, it is inevitable that such an error would occur.

If you don't like satisfying the requirements to claim money that is ultimately funded by taxpayers, then you are of course free to choose not to claim it.

I'm happy that things are subject to a degree of checking.

zootet

But do you have the actual law or regulation which says that?

john539

People in Admin will cover themselves at every step, they'll copy everything & anything even if it's not necessary.

99.9% of Jobcentre/government staff don't know, because they follow like sheep.

If you question or refuse, all it does is put their backs up as you are questioning their authority, knowledge & ability to do the job.

Very few people question or refuse these basic requests & government staff now take it for granted, that's why they just carry on regardless of your reasonable & sensible objections.

Just look at the data losses within government.

Certainly if you push it, once it gets to someone who really know what they are doing, they'll cave in.