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Parking Ticket Appeals successes and failures

edited 10 June 2010 at 4:36PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
556 replies 478.5K views


  • Hi All
    I received a parking fine from UKCP in December 08 at a Tesco's car park in Hull. I followed the advice on this site, thank goodness, and have ignored all their correspondence. Despite a debt management company sending me letters and phoning my home, and letters from solicitors threatening court action, I have held firm and not responded. I have not received anything further in the last four months and am thinking now that they've just given up and gone away. Just thought I'd let you all know.
    Stick to your guns everyone, and dont let these robbing b******s get away with what they do.
  • I had lots of fun last year with the Civil Enforcement Ltd and their partners in crime Newlyn (debt collectors). I thoroughly enjoyed the battle and even for cowboy standards these guys were amateurs!!!

    My only problem was that the battle with these idiots was so enjoyable I got withdrawal symptoms when they backed off!!!
  • hi can any one help

    my husband got a ticket off a man in a white van for unloading his car at the keepmoat football ground doncaster last week. he never left the car was just unloading football equ at the side of the car when the man from a van appeared and gave him a ticket for £100 reduced to £70 if paid with in 7 days is this legal should i pay. the company is VDM LTD of doncaster only a po box address. the spineless man had written the ticket with out getting out of the van so had sat and watch my hubby :confused: and gave no warning
  • OrfordOrford Forumite
    2.2K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    hi can any one help

    my husband got a ticket off a man in a white van for unloading his car at the keepmoat football ground doncaster last week. he never left the car was just unloading football equ at the side of the car when the man from a van appeared and gave him a ticket for £100 reduced to £70 if paid with in 7 days is this legal should i pay. the company is VDM LTD of doncaster only a po box address. the spineless man had written the ticket with out getting out of the van so had sat and watch my hubby :confused: and gave no warning
    Private parking ticket

    Do not pay them
    Do not write/appeal/phone them
    Ignore all further letters, no matter how threatening they seem
    eventually they'll go away

    VDM seem to be new boys on the block incorporated Jan 2009 operating from a private house in Tadworth, Surrey
  • NeptuneNeptune Forumite
    29 Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Well, hopefully this is the right thread in which to post?

    OF NOTE: I had included links to the various documents, but could not post with them included so you will need to find them yourselves - sorry.

    I had a success with a PCN being cancelled by Bath & North East Somerset Council.

    In brief I was parked in a rural area, on a small piece of private land adjacent to the public highway. The public highway (this is a cul-de-sac) is marked with double yellow lines for some of it's length.

    I felt I had parked legally (being on private land so decided to fight the PCN), this was before I found the MSE parking threads. During my research into how best to approach this I did a LOT of reading and searching. I would like to share this with others in the hope it may help. I have found using the MSE site that the law is key to fighting your corner...... hey it's what the authorities and companies always quote at you...... quote it right back, gather supporting evidence (photos, caselaw etc).

    First make a (as is as far as possible to do), reasonable judgment.... do you have a case to fight? But do this after you have done some research into YOUR rights and others obligations.

    Firstly remember...... ONLY a COURT can impose a fine, and fines are part of the criminal justice system. Everything else is a charge notice, simply a request for payment.

    First a sign has to be legal! The sign must meet the prescription or it is simply some paint on the road, or a piece of painted metal in a nice shape.

    Davies v Heatley [1971] R.T.R 145
    Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the contravention of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not as prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind.

    A local authority may respond that do you suggest they maintain all the road markings in pristine condition? The answer is that the law requires it: Section 41 of the Highways Act 1980 imposes a duty on the Highway Authority to maintain those roads which are maintainable at public expense.
    Therefore it is not good enough to simply have marked a highway once, it must be maintained, and the markings must comply with s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

    There are also some defences possible under the Bill of Rights 1689 (you can view it here: WAS LINK HERE) states: That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void;
    If a notice tells you that you WILL be FINED..... illegal.

    With regard to those nasty companies who keep harassing you for payment. The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 offers comfort, althought primarily designed to tackle stalking, it is drafted in such a way as to cover many things........ it's a criminal offence to harass, and if so minded you can take a civil action for damages. So tell them to stop contacting you. If they want the money they say you owe them they must pursue it through the civil courts is they think they have a claim. If they continue to harass you, call the police to report them - it's a criminal offence. You can view the act here: WAS LINK HERE
    Section 1 and 3 are of most interest.

    Here is the letter I sent to BANES:
    Dear Sir / Madam

    You recently issued a PCN on my vehicle, the details of which are contained under the PCN with the reference shown above.I write to advise I believe the charge to be issued in error for the following reasons, and request you withdraw your request for the charge stipulated in the PCN with the reference BNXXXXXXXX.
    The Land on which my vehicle was parked does not form part of the highway, being in private ownership. Should you believe this not to be the case please provide proof of your right to enforce on this land, and provide the TRO in force for this location either under this request or by virture of the Freedom Of Information Act.

    Davies v Heatley [1971] R.T.R 145

    Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the contravention of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not as prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind.
    The road markings on Ferry Lane (Claverton ) do not comply with the stringent requirements of the Road Traffic Regulation Act as amended. This argument has been consistently upheld by parking Adjuicators. The markings in Ferry Lane fail on numerous counts: The T bar terminator is missing, the lines are NOT continous and unbroken and therefore lines do not conform to statute 1018.1.Goodes v. East Sussex County Council & Section 41 of the Highways Act 1980
    recommendations as to inspection periods is contained within you own council under WAS LINK HERE
    The markings have not been maintained as is required by lawFor the above reasons I assert that the contravention did not occur and look forward to confirmation that PCN - BNXXXXXXXX has been withdrawn.

    They replied they would not cancel, so I replied that I would see them in court........... PCN cancelled.

    I hope that others find this useful and can take what they need in relation to their own circumstances.
  • reugrereugre Forumite
    4 Posts
    Is there a limited time scale from when you get a ticket till when you ask them for a refund. I'm asking this sis because about 6months ago I got my car Towed and I had to pay £360 to get it back. I didnt know that I can actually try and claim the money back. I had parked in a private parking area ant ther was only one sign on the entrance that says that it was a private property. I still have the invoice that I paid that amount. Does anyone know if it's too late?
  • Successfull claim against a private clamping company:
    Achieved via the Small Claims court.
    Over £120 repaid
    Appeal was based on: unreasonable charges and unreasonable signage.

    Back in 2007 I made a successful claim against a private clamping firm. It's the usual scenario where the firm clamped, threatened, towed away and bullied my wife for full payment - all within a short period of time. She was forced to pay the full charges in cash at that time.

    When we appealed to them directly they failed to respond to letters, so we took them to the Small Claims Court. The following 4 things worked in our favour, and are good recommendations for others pursuing a claim via the small claims court:
    (1) Do try to write to the clampers first, and ensure those letters are sent by recorded delivery. This demonstrates you tried to resolve the issue outside of the courts first.
    (2) Visit several government and publically owned car parks (council offices, doctors, jobcenter) and you'll likely find clamping fees are usually no more than £30-£60 pounds. Take photos of these signs as evidence of what is a reasonable charge for clamping.
    (3) Don't claim for the full amount. Just because the clampers fees were extortinate, it doesn't mean they shouldn't get a penny. We felt that £60 was a maximum 'reasonable' penalty for parking without authority on private land, so despite paying over £160 in fees, we only claimed for £100 + court charges.
    (4) If the signage was bad at the location of the clamping, take photos of signage as seen when in the car driving into the location, and walking away from your car. In our case, we were able to demonstrate that the signs were neither obvious, nor at a reasonable height and with text that was too small for it's location.

    I believe the above 4 contributed to us winning the claim.

    Footnote: Apologies. I don't recall the exact amount we claimed for as it was 2-3 years ago, although it was over £120. The important part of this email is how we prepared for and won the claim.
  • I've had two of these PCNs in recent years and the thing I've learned is that there is no point whatsoever in trying to reason with these companies. It doesn't matter if you're in the right. It doesn't matter what your story is. It doesn't matter how unfair or ridiculous the "ticket" is. They're not interested, do not waste your time in trying to argue the toss with them.

    The easiest way to go about it is just to ignore them. As so many other people have testified, they won't chase you for the money, no matter how much they make it seem like they will. These "tickets" are unenforcable.

    Alternatively, if you don't want to just sit back and ignore them, you can wait to see if they write to following the issue of the "ticket" and write them a standard letter stating that you don't recall who was driving the car on that day and therefore are not going to pay. They may pester you to provide them with these details but this is unlikely since they know, as you do, that you are under no obligations to provide them with these details. You can find a template for this letter, and lots of other helpful advice at this site:
    No Unapproved or Personal links in signatures please - FT3
  • NurselayerNurselayer Forumite
    100 Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hi all,

    Just to report my recent success against Waltham Forest Council at a PATAS hearing. There is a thread about it in the main threads list if you want more details but a brief description is below along with the text of the PATAS decision.

    I'd parked in bays that were incorrectly marked and was ticketed. I wrote an informal appeal that was declined. I received a NTO and appealed. This too was declined. I then went to PATAS. The adjudicator noticed that the council's photographic evidence was incorrectly dated and found in my favour. His summing up is below.

    "The officer photos are not at all clear and I have correspondinglh little confidence in the council evidence accuracy fo the car contravening the bay. I cannot see where the governing bay sign is in relation to the car. Moreover, and I have not encountered this sort of discrepancy before, the Penalty Charge Notice was delivered on 6 Dec 2008 whereas the council photos of the appellant car appear datestamped 8/12/08. This sort of discrepancy might not always lead to a successful appeal, indeed it is not really major plank in my decision today, but I must say motorists at large would find this sort of error on dating quite galling, especially when motorists may be legitimately penalised for carelessly scratching out the wrong dat on a scratch-off permit for example." APPEAL ALLOWED.

    I hope this may be of help to other motorists who have had a ticket issued against them incorrectly.

    Once again thanks to all that helped me fight this.
  • edited 24 September 2009 at 7:43AM
    macsuggsmacsuggs Forumite
    1 Post
    edited 24 September 2009 at 7:43AM
    Type of appeal
    What are you appealing against? Objection to an on street penalty charge notice
    Grounds - objections to an on-street PCN
    Please list your reasons for challenging the PCN:
    Please type here: Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) No CU
    Civil Enforcement Officer
    On the 28th August 2009 I parked at Heath Street NW3 just before 8am. The parking restrictions do not commence before 9am. As I was not expecting to be there at 9am I did not purchase a ticket at that time. When it was becoming clear that I was going to be delayed I returned to my van as the time approached 9am. On my way back I was held up by one thing or another and arrived at the
    parking ticket meter at 09.08 on the display. The traffic warden was in the vicinity of my van and then crossed the road to talk to someone. By the time I got money out my pocket and purchased a ticket the display time was 09.09. I went to my van where I saw the PCN under my wiper blade. I took the PCN and sat in the driver's seat and cursed the people who had held me up on my way back. I read the ticket and saw that the ticket had been issued at 09.07 and I looked at my van clock and it was also at 09.07. I have been in the vicinity of my van for about 2 minutes, I have seen the warden on the opposite side of the road for about 2 minutes,
    I have a ticket issued at 09.07, and my clock says that the present time is 09.07. Which is correct? Now I know that my
    van clock is less than 5 seconds slow. I know this because I had checked it at 8am when the pips on radio 2 had
    sounded and the van clock changed to 08:00 within 5 seconds of the pips finishing so I know that the van time is
    accurate to within 5 seconds. So when the van clock changed to 09.10, I rushed to the ticket machine, which is
    less than 5 meters away, and sure enough the display time is 09.12 which means that the ticket machine time is about 2
    minutes fast. Taking this into account I look at the ticket again. The times on the PCN is from 09.02 to 09.07 but in
    reality it is 09.00 to 09.05 BST. Which time is correct? BST? The machine issuing the ticket? The warden's PCN
    machine? I contacted the number on the back of the ticket for information and they were not very helpful and told me to
    put any objections in writing. The job is taking a lot longer than it should so once again I have to return to the van. The warden, who issued the PCN walks past and is happy because the display ticket is within time. A second warden appears a few minutes later and is happy because the ticket has expired but I am leaving I show him the ticket and he nods his head and moves on. Not knowing how long the job is going to take I drive off to find a better parking spot which gives a longer time for your money. I drive around a few times. I pass the warden who issued the PCN twice. The second time I pass her I find a parking spot about 500m from my original spot but here you get 7.5 minutes per 20p compared to 5 minutes per 20p. So I park up, get out the van and go to the ticket issuing machine, on the way there I pass the warden who issued the PCN and as I insert money into the machine I am watching her and she is about to issue another ticket to my van. I get my ticket and go back to her and said to her that I have got a ticket and she accuses me that I only got the ticket because I saw her coming and that I was displaying an invalid ticket (from my previous parking spot) and she was going to issue another ticket or else I could drive away. I told her that she knows that I have just arrived and parked there and she saw me going to the ticket machine. She said that she couldn't remember everyone she saw. So I told her
    that I had passed her twice in the van and where I had passed her. The second time I had seen her she was standing in a loading only area halfway out onto the road and she replied that she had been talking to someone on the opposite side of the road. At this point she became aware that there was a witness on the other side of the road
    who had witnessed everything and was watching everything that was going on and she immediately without saying another word turned and walked away.

    ...and the reply....

    Thank you for your letter received on 09/09/2009. This Penalty Charge Notice was issued because the above vehicle was seen parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket or voucher.

    There is no dispute that your vehicle was parked in a Pay and Display bay without a valid Pay and Display ticket. Given that the display of such a ticket is one of the conditions of parking in a Pay and Display bay, I am satisfied that a contravention occurred. I do not believe that the grounds you have provided are sufficient for the cancellation of this Penalty Charge Notice.

    Having investigated this case, however, I have decided to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice on the evidence you have provided. This case is now closed, and you need take no further action. However, please be aware that future contraventions of this nature may not be cancelled in this way, I hope this brings the matter to a satisfactory conclusion.
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