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Parking Ticket Appeals successes and failures

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Former_MSE_WendyFormer_MSE_Wendy
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This thread's to report successes for the Parking Ticket Appeal guide.

To discuss/ask a question click post reply.

If you want to discuss parking tickets rather than report a success go to the
Parking Ticket Appeals Discussion


:money:Plus, read about Martin's appeal success in his Parking Fines blog.


How to report your success/failure:
1. Click reply to enter you story
2. Report your story in the following format:
  • Who was your ticket from? (e.g. Civil, Police or Criminal)
  • Which stage did you get to? (e.g. informal, formal, tribunal, Ombudsman)
  • How much did you get back?
  • Which ground did you appeal under?
  • And then write your brief reclaim tale...
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  • Our company regularly receives parking tickets when delivering in London I always appeal (providing obvious illegal parking i.e. wheels on kerbs, red routes etc didn't happen) my appeal is always we were unloading goods and by law we are allowed 20 minutes to do this, traffic wardens never wait around 20 minutes to see if that was happening so they can't prove it wasn't going on as we may have been in the customers building for some time and not on the back onf the van, the councils argument that loading/unloading was not seen is not acceptable by a appeals tribunal which I have tested many times and won..
  • Nearly three years ago we were issued with a private parking ticket on a university campus. The university hired out the premises for ballet classes. Building work was going on so the normal car park was very limited and the car park usually full. The entrance to the campus was on a busy main road with no pavement, so it was impossible to walk there with a 6 year old.

    For many weeks of the building work, the security guard directed parents to park in a small staff car park opposite the dance studio, saying he felt the other car park was dangerous for such young children with all the building works. There were very few marked bays available but lots of space around which the guard directed us to park in. Sometimes the guard was not on the entrance gate, but he had made it clear that we could park there. Then, one week, we popped in to collect our daughter, came out less than 5 minutes later, and found that we had been issued with a ticket. We found the security guard and his words were "don't worry, just write a letter to the company and it will be fine".

    Our letter of appeal highlighted the follwing points-
    That the uni were hiring out the premises to parents of young children but providing no safe parking facility
    That the security guard had directed us, week after week, to park there
    That the week after the ticket was issued we were told by the security guard that an "official" directive had been passed to let dance school users park there. So after that week there were people parked everywhere and they said they were no longer issuing tickets because of the building works. There was complete inconsistency in the rules
    That the car park tickets should be kept for the purpose of those misusing the facility, and not those they knew to be genuine users
    That we felt "tricked" into being given a ticket by constant reassurances from the guard that it was fine to be there
    That the guard had told us on the day that the ticket should not have been issued
    That the ticket was littered with copies of the police emblem - for a while we thought it was police issued - and we felt this was deliberately decieving


    We appealed and got absolutely nowhere. Our letters were basically ignored and we just received a standard reply back eg "you were not parked in a marked bay". They refused to addresss any of the points we raised at all, just said they had photographic evidence.

    Despite us responding to their letters immediately every time, they kept hiking the fine up. First they demanded £40, then they said we owed £80, then £120 for "extra administration costs" which I assume was sending the standard letters!

    Then we got a letter saying the bailiffs would be coming round to collect articles to the value of £120 plus "costs". We wrote back and said that we would not be allowing anyone access to our home without a court-issued warrant (though at this point, I must admit, I was quite panicky and I nearly paid up), and that they had no right to do this as they still hadn't addressed the issues raised in our letter.

    Finally we got a letter saying they were giving us one final chance to pay (weirdly, they reduced it back down to £90 at this point) or they would take us to court and we would have to pay all their associated costs. I wrote back and said, "fine, take us to court, I'm sure a court would love to hear about your non-existant appeals procedure and the fact that you have refused to address every single one of the issues we have raised". I was absolutely detemined by this time to go to court if need be, because I was so fed up with them refusing to address the issues in my appeal letter. We must have had about 6 letters from them and every single one was a standard letter - they didn't even use our name.

    Two years on and we heard nothing after that letter. For about 6 months I was waiting, but have heard nothing. I'm not a legal expert, so I don't know if there's still time to take us to court or not. But my guess is they push you as far as they can to try and frighten you into paying, but don't actually bother with the court stage - I would imagine their chances of winning would be slight.:beer:
  • bargepolebargepole Forumite
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    musicposy wrote: »
    I would imagine their chances of winning would be slight.
    So slight as to be almost invisible. Well done on sticking to your guns and seeing off these scumbags. Your case also demonstrates what a complete waste of time it is appealing to these PPCs - they never take any notice of the circumstances, they just want your money. Well done.

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 46, lost 12), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and am a Graduate member of CILEx, studying towards a Fellowship (equivalent to solicitor) in Civil Litigation. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
  • I won an appeal. The council did not bother to attend ( as is the norm apparently), the adjudicator (usually a solicitor/former solicitor) ordered the council to refund my £200 fine/compound fees. The council decided to write to me asking me to PROVE I had been the person who actually paid the £200 compound/parking ticket fees ( I paid cash). They did not comply with the order ! I will now issue a summons in county court.
  • AegisAegis Forumite
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    I've received a total of 3 tickets from my local council for parking on the road outside my flat. Their official diagrams show road markings which mark out bay parking half on and half off the pavement, with supplementary signs showing that parking on the footway is valid in this context. The problem is that for the most part, these markings don't exist any more. In places more than 90% of the white paint has been eroded, and any sensible person looking at the bays would conclude that they had been erased years ago and no longer applied.

    Naturally the council don't see it that way.

    My first ticket was received in 2006, and I appealed informally on the grounds that Davie vs Heatley specifically states that markings not matching the description in Traffic Signs and Regulations order. This informal appeal was rejected. A few months later my formal representations (which stated the exact same defences, but a little more eloquently) was upheld, and the council admitted that they were cancelling it due to "an error made by our attendant". Yeah, sure...

    The lie was put to that statement when I received 2 more tickets the next year in the space of a week. For pretty much the exact same offence (I was about 30 metres from the first site, but the condition of the markings and signage was identical there).

    I appealed informally based on the overturning of my previous PCN, but was told that this time it was different because of the different location.

    I appealed formally through the "making representations" process, and was again rejected on both counts by the council who apparently sent someone out to see the state of the markings and decided that they were adequate. See below for why this is laughable:

    http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51216387nq7.jpg

    In the image there, my car would have been parked behind the mini. As you can see, there are no visible markings on the road indicating bays, and there is no termination point for the sign on the post, implying that it is valid in either direction for that stretch of pavement. In case anyone notes that parking on a corner is automatically against the highway code, this was not the offence the PCNs were issued for, and my rear axel crossed the pavement at 90 degrees with no curvature: I was parked on the straight. (Yes, my car is quite small!)

    Clearly at this point the council was making stuff up, as there is no way a reasonable human being could have seen the bay marking that the mini is parked in for that picture. Did anyone here spot it?

    So, I was left with no real option but to go to PaTAS with my appeal. Between the rejection of representations and the appeal, I supplied numerous pieces of evidence to the council demonstrating why they should just stop harassing me for money, but was constantly brushed aside as though they had no moral obligation to look fairly at my evidence before insisting that I pay.

    I received their evidence packet and within 10 minutes had highlighted about 12 points where their evidence was either outright false or internally contradictory. The real gems were:
    • "There is a clear sign indicating the commencement of the allowable area of parking" - were this one true, the allowed area would run from the sign shown above, around the corner to the sign just up the road, which is in the middle of the area they claim is allowable. They really couldn't be more wrong on this one, and in any case, if this were a comencement point then it would require a termination point on the other side, clearly missing
    • The council supplied a map of the area with my vehicle marked in completely the wrong location - I told them about this in advance of the hearing and they refused to replace or withdraw this map. Supplying false evidence is probably a crime, right?
    • The best part of this whole matter is the report from the parking attendant, in which they clearly have a series of yes/no questions, one of which is "Is the vehicle parked outside an allowable area of footway parking". The attendant answered "No" to that question! This should have been grounds for immediate dismissal, but the council hadn't had all their fun yet, clearly.
    I went to PaTAS with my evidence pack and was awarded my appeal for both tickets in less than 10 minutes. This is what happens when someone without a vested interest takes a look, apparently.

    I have had further requests for apologies and compensation rejected by the local council, and am now considering filing a complaint with the local government ombusdman and suing the parking department for the 9-month long harassment for money they put me through when it was clear from the start that they were in the wrong.

    If anyone has any advice about going through that, I'd love to hear it. I can't find any cases where it's been successful before, but I think with the amount of dishonesty going on in this case purely to try and get the money out of me with no grounds for further appeal amounts to harassment and possibly attempted extortion. In either case it's definitely a case of malfeasance in public office, but I don't believe that the local police would be interested in chasing that one up, unfortunately.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
  • Hi all

    I have appealed and won many PCN. I've listed some of the details on the PARKING TICKET APPEALS GUIDE, I won't relist them here.

    My favourite one was when Southwark Council put two PCNs on my motorbike in the space of on hour (presume the first one blew away) depspite me having a pay and display ticket in my second tax disc holder mounted on my bike - if the warden had even bother to walk round my bike once, he would have seen it.
    The Council wasted 9 months of my time on this so I charged them and took them to the small claims court. I won £220 from the council for wasting my time!!!

    My second favourite one wa the 56 day rule which the council didn't even know about. (see appeals forum for full details)

    :)
  • In late 2005 I was fined £170 by Creative Car Parks for allegedly parking for over 3 hours in a shoppers car park in Polegate, East Sussex. However, I had actually initially parked there for a few minutes to get some change and then moved the car to the station car park nearby where I bought a ticket. I caught a train to Brighton and returned a few hours later.
    I then popped the car back in the shoppers car park to collect a prescription before returning home. In total I had parked in the shoppers car park for 9 minutes.

    I received a notice of the fine in the post a few weeks later demanding payment. The only contact detail was for the payment by credit card. There was no other information enabling me to contact the company. Luckily I had retained my railway car park ticket which included the time I had parked which proved I was not in the shoppers car park at that time.

    I sent a very angry letter to Creative Car Parks who said they had a problem with their equipment on that day and were rescinding the ticket.

    I took this matter up with my local MP, Norman Baker who had been told of similar action being taken both locally and nationally by Creative Car Parks and he mirrored my concerns that our private information was being given to this company by the DVLA. He subsequently brought this up in the House of Commons and there was a lot of publicity at the time. The Mail on Sunday took up the case and we also appeared on local BBC and ITV television to draw this apparent lapse in our Data Protection rights to the general public.

    Despite the law being changed these companies are still buying this information from the DVLA and many other people are being conned out of a lot of money by Creative Car Parks and similar organisations.

    In the Mail on Sunday this week they have raised this issue again so it is important that if you are caught by this or similar companies that you don't let the matter settle but fight it.
  • Aegis wrote: »
    I have had further requests for apologies and compensation rejected by the local council, and am now considering filing a complaint with the local government ombusdman and suing the parking department for the 9-month long harassment for money they put me through when it was clear from the start that they were in the wrong.

    If anyone has any advice about going through that, I'd love to hear it.

    Hi there - perhaps I can help.
    I parked my motorbike outside an ITV suboffice for a one hour meeting in Southwark. There was no space on the bikebays so I parked in a pay and display (P&D) bay, bought a ticket and displayed it in my second tax disc holder (which I put there for all my pay and display tickets).

    The warden didn't bother to walk round my bike and went along with the popular misconception that motobikes aren't allowed to pay in P&D bays - they are. Two PCNs were issued for my bike within one hour which is illegal - I presume the first one blew off as I only found one and didn't know about the other until I got threatening letters a few months later.

    I obviously appealed - I had taken a picture of my bike with the ticket duly displayed and I sent it to Southwark Council with a copy of my P&D ticket. My PCN was cancelled after a couple of months. I then got the demand for payment for a second ticket that I knew nothing about. Again I had to appeal and pointed out that it was illegal to issue two tickets within an hour and if they didn't know about the second ticket, then how on earth would I.

    You would have thought that with such a simple situation, the PCN would simply be cancelled and an apology would be given. It wasn't and I ended up spending 9 months dealing with both tickets. As I had made no error in the first place and as they had acted illegally, I decided to invoice them for my time.

    I worked out from my weekly salary what my hourly rate would be and added up all the time it took to write, make calls etc. It came to just under £200. I sent an invoice to Southwark Council Parking Shop, which they ignored. I gave them 28 days to pay and sent a further invoice after that giving them 7 days to pay. When they didn't, I started a Money Claim On Line - costs about £30.

    They didn't fight the writ and so I was awarded payment (almost by default). I got a cheque from Southwark Council for costs and legal costs totalling £220!!! I claimed under "reclaiming costs".

    Go for it!
  • AegisAegis Forumite
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    campfreddy wrote: »
    Hi there - perhaps I can help.
    I parked my motorbike outside an ITV suboffice for a one hour meeting in Southwark. There was no space on the bikebays so I parked in a pay and display (P&D) bay, bought a ticket and displayed it in my second tax disc holder (which I put there for all my pay and display tickets).

    The warden didn't bother to walk round my bike and went along with the popular misconception that motobikes aren't allowed to pay in P&D bays - they are. Two PCNs were issued for my bike within one hour which is illegal - I presume the first one blew off as I only found one and didn't know about the other until I got threatening letters a few months later.

    I obviously appealed - I had taken a picture of my bike with the ticket duly displayed and I sent it to Southwark Council with a copy of my P&D ticket. My PCN was cancelled after a couple of months. I then got the demand for payment for a second ticket that I knew nothing about. Again I had to appeal and pointed out that it was illegal to issue two tickets within an hour and if they didn't know about the second ticket, then how on earth would I.

    You would have thought that with such a simple situation, the PCN would simply be cancelled and an apology would be given. It wasn't and I ended up spending 9 months dealing with both tickets. As I had made no error in the first place and as they had acted illegally, I decided to invoice them for my time.

    I worked out from my weekly salary what my hourly rate would be and added up all the time it took to write, make calls etc. It came to just under £200. I sent an invoice to Southwark Council Parking Shop, which they ignored. I gave them 28 days to pay and sent a further invoice after that giving them 7 days to pay. When they didn't, I started a Money Claim On Line - costs about £30.

    They didn't fight the writ and so I was awarded payment (almost by default). I got a cheque from Southwark Council for costs and legal costs totalling £220!!! I claimed under "reclaiming costs".

    Go for it!
    Sounds like that might be exactly what I wanted to hear...

    I already gave them a 28 day payment period, and they've now stated that they have no intention of paying, so I might well file for the trouble.

    My hourly rate calculation for the amount of time wasted came close to £500 due to the amount of research and letter-writing I had to do, so I'm quite eager to put this one through both to stop me wasting my time and to show them that they can't get away with this on everyone!
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
  • I was parked on a Residents area on a Bank Holiday and the sign did not make clear if that was OK or not. I asked 2 passing wardens if it was OK and they said yes. When I got back to my car it had been towed. I had to pay to get it released and I appealed. The appeal was rejected on the basis I had not taken the wardens numbers. The Westminster council made no attempt to identify them even though I could spotlight where and when the discussion occurred. After hitting some brick walls I eventually spoke with somebody at Westminster Council who refered me to a report that had been done into parking problems and appeals. Funnily enough the vast majority of bad tickets were down to incorrect warden advice. The report also highlighted timescales and I found that the council had exceded the timescale to reply to my initial appeal. Based on that I asked for a personal hearing which you can do after a rejected appeal and the council backed down and refunded me.
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