Should I pay..Civil Enforcement Ltd?

Trebor16

AltheHibby wrote: »

If it looks like the one here:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb190/Bandageman2003/Private%20Parking%20Tickett/File0033.jpg

Ignore it. It reads like they have already won in court and that is just rubbish. It's as accurate as me saying that Scotland are good enough to win Euro 2012 when we won't even be there.

The wording of that letter is atrocious. It gives the impression that all they have to do is to register the debt at the county court and then they can send the bailiffs round. It is obviously deliberate and designed to scare and intimidate. But at least we know the true situation here about what they ACTUALLY have to do next as opposed to what they think they can do.

give_them_FA

It's total bullsh*t. But then again what do you expect from the thoroughly disreputable people involved in this industry.

Rationalise: The only reason they have to try to scare people is because, in reality, they CAN'T and WON'T do anything more than issue nasty letters.

whatacrocof****

Okay so I too have joined this nervous 'waiting game' that many of us seem to be in. I parked outside Bannatynes Gym in Milton Keynes around 2 weeks ago. The silly thing is that I saw the signs where I had parked said you had to ring up to pay, but for once in my life I had a spare £1 lurking in my car so just thought I would get a ticket the old fashioned way - plus I know how those automated machines work and they always misinterpret my D for a P - I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle and I was in a rush. Anyway, I remember walking into the building at around 12.35 because I looked at my watch and thought to myself I was 5 minutes late. Yesterday I received a letter from Civil Enforcement Ltd saying I had to pay a £70 fine now or £120 later. The time of the 'fine' was 12.36!!! I reckon someone had been watching me until I had literally gone out of sight! I phoned them up to ask why they had given me a 'fine' when I had a pay and display ticket (and also questioned why they don't put a notice on your car at the time) and they said that the pay and display machine was for a different car park and that they don't have to put a notice on the car. Although there are lots of signs where I parked saying you had to ring up for a ticket, it was not clear that this area was different to the other car park which had a pay and display machine system (which is what I used). I don't have the ticket any more but you can just about see the ticket in the photo, not that they care of course.

After lots of thought, I have decided not to pay but there are a couple of things I am unsure of, firstly, why are people on this forum saying 'don't contact at all' - I am not going to pay their £70 demand but I really don't want the hassle of all the letters and possibly one of their fake bailiffs knocking at my door so what about if I sent them a letter saying 'sorry for parking in your car park, I bought a pay and display ticket from the machine next door to your car park and you need to make it clearer that your car park is separate from this one, here's £1 for your parking, here's £2.50 for what it cost you to obtain my name and address from the dvla and here's .50p to cover postage, please accept as full and final settlement" and surely if they cash the cheque then they will just leave me alone? Secondly, is there still that rule about the driver/registered keeper - I have watched the Watchdog clip saying that in the extremely unlikely event they do legitimately want to take you to court they would have to prove you were the driver - I thought that loophole had been closed? And thirdly, has anyone ever requested the additional photos because from the photo they have included, I could have been parked anywhere - I wondered if the other photos show more of the background and therefore they have the proof that you were definitely parked there?

Any advice on this nature would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I will sit back and wait for the letters to arrive and keep a note of what arrives and the timeline of events (so others will know what to expect). The trouble is, you get other people scaring you, saying things like 'oh I've heard about them, they send bailiffs round and everything if you don't pay up'!!

angel_islington

You have to remember one thing. This is a SCAM. The reason we say to ignore them is that if you contact them they think that you are on the hook and you will just get more letters. If you actually are foolish enough to pay them, it's common practice for the scammers to come back for MORE money, usually under the 'late payment' premise. Show them that you are not a mug and ignore.

You will not get bailiffs. Bailiffs can only be appointed by the court, which would require them to take you to court, win and then you not paying up within the month. We are talking Elvis in the chip shop stuff here. There are such things are private bailiffs but that not in the PPC modus operandi, it's just too expensive. It makes more sense to just give up when you don't give in to their intimidation and move on to someone who is happy to get fleeced.

give_them_FA

You have indeed made the mistake of thinking you are dealing with rational and honest people. You are not. It is, as Angel says, purely a money grubbing SCAM. Hence they won't be interested in accepting a reasonable and logical settlement, they want their pound of flesh and won't settle for less.

Fortunately, being a private company, they have absolutely no right to levy a fine or penalty against you so what they demand is TOTALLY unenforceable. DO NOT PAY, the signing was plainly inadequate in any case.

Don't speak to them again, Angel is right, they think you are actually taking them seriously so will put the pressure on... DO NOT take them seriously, just ignore all the bullsh*t they send you and they WILL eventually go away.

Save the letters as this company routinely breaks the law with its threats and may give YOU the opportunity to sue THEM.

But there will be no knocks on your door, the rule about having to identify the driver hasn't changed, and you are still more likely to win the Lotto Jackpot than to receive a claim from them- despite all the lies they will tell you.

Coupon-mad

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

...Yesterday I received a letter from Civil Enforcement Ltd saying I had to pay a £70 fine now or £120 later. The time of the 'fine' was 12.36!!! I reckon someone had been watching me until I had literally gone out of sight!

It's not a fine.

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

I phoned them up...

Waste of time and phone call money.

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

...to ask why they had given me a 'fine' when I had a pay and display ticket (and also questioned why they don't put a notice on your car at the time) and they said that the pay and display machine was for a different car park and that they don't have to put a notice on the car. Although there are lots of signs where I parked saying you had to ring up for a ticket, it was not clear that this area was different to the other car park which had a pay and display machine system (which is what I used). I don't have the ticket any more but you can just about see the ticket in the photo, not that they care of course.

Doesn't matter, it's a scam.

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

After lots of thought, I have decided not to pay...

Why so long, it took me about a nano-second to know not to pay after I stopped laughing at my fake PCN. And I am only an ordinary wife & Mum with a job with enhanced CRB check and a clean credit record.

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

...but there are a couple of things I am unsure of, firstly, why are people on this forum saying 'don't contact at all' - I am not going to pay their £70 demand but I really don't want the hassle of all the letters and possibly one of their fake bailiffs knocking at my door ...

Really don't know where you got that idea from? No-one comes knocking.

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

so what about if I sent them a letter saying 'sorry for parking in your car park, I bought a pay and display ticket from the machine next door to your car park and you need to make it clearer that your car park is separate from this one, here's £1 for your parking, here's £2.50 for what it cost you to obtain my name and address from the dvla and here's .50p to cover postage, please accept as full and final settlement" and surely if they cash the cheque then they will just leave me alone?

What do you think? :rotfl:

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

Secondly, is there still that rule about the driver/registered keeper - I have watched the Watchdog clip saying that in the extremely unlikely event they do legitimately want to take you to court they would have to prove you were the driver - I thought that loophole had been closed?

Not yet. So not for you in this case. And even when the Freedoms Bill changes that it still won't magically make a fake PCN enforceable!

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

And thirdly, has anyone ever requested the additional photos because from the photo they have included, I could have been parked anywhere - I wondered if the other photos show more of the background and therefore they have the proof that you were definitely parked there?

Why would anyone waste their time? It's a scam!

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

Any advice on this nature would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I will sit back and wait for the letters to arrive and keep a note of what arrives and the timeline of events (so others will know what to expect).

We know what arrives and the timeline differs (usually a few months).

whatacrocof**** wrote: »

The trouble is, you get other people scaring you, saying things like 'oh I've heard about them, they send bailiffs round and everything if you don't pay up'!!

Which idiot said that? No forum tells you that rubbish. What on earth makes anyone think that a private firm can send a bailiff round with no Court case first?

whatacrocof****

Okay got it!!! Thanks everyone - feel so much better! Am not going to do A THING. It was a friend who said the thing about them sending the bailiffs round, but then it's what people "hear" isn't it? - it's all just scare tactics which work with some. There are LOADS of signs in the place I parked - but it is certainly not clear that you are entering into a different section that the pay and display machines do not apply to. And the fact that they waited until I just out of sight (and probably saw me put an "invalid" pay and display ticket in my car makes me so angry!!!!!! I am surprised I have not read about anyone else on this forum that has done the same thing in MK. Anyway, thanks again, much happier person now and if only I could find out how to do those smiley faces I would put lots of them here: !!!

Oopsadaisy

Private = ignore, ignore, ignore some more.......there's nothing else to know or say or ask.

give_them_FA

I daresay your "friend" told you about bailiffs because they read it in a letter from a parking company or debt collector and..... believed it!!

Never believe anything they say, lying is the debt collector's stock-in-trade.

To put smilies on, click the "go advanced" under the post box!

That will be £80 please, or £50 if you pay in 10 days!

whatacrocof****

Well exactly, if people believe these letters and threats and then tell everyone they know then this is how others (not in the situation) hear about it (like my friend) and say 'oh yeah I've heard of them, they have the power to do such and such'. PPC's rely on scare tactics, that's all they have. But they will probably always survive because some will always be scared and pay up, that's the sad bit!