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morag1202

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Refusing to take a child on educational visits because they're disabled?!!!!!!!!!!

Words fail me....

No, schools do not refuse to take kids on trips because they are disabled per se. They can refuse to take them if the the disability means they are a risk to themselves or others which the school cannot reasonably manage. The alternative would be to cancel the trip for everyone!

Both my kids have been deaf since birth (masked gene) and DS was statemented at 5. One year they arranged a trip to the Yorkshire Coal Mining Museum for his class. At the detailed RA stage they realised Museum would not let him underground wearing his aids (battery might ignite pit gas) so they figured he'd not get much out of the trip and warned me.

Now, they knew better than to actually refuse to take him (was a very good school) but they also knew he'd be a risk to himself if no one could communicate with him underground, reassure him if he was frightened etc. They also knew he'd be gutted if he got there then had to stay topside whilst everyone disappeared for an hour? What to do?

In Sue's case school might have to factor in 2 members of staff specifically for him if his hip displaced in the jungle plus the normal staff/student ratio for the others. His medical condition might be uninsurable.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

[Sighs]

So - 'It's not that we don't want to take x because they are disabled, if they were disabled but had exactly the same needs as a child without a medical condition,
(ie, just like everyone else) we would be happy to take them'.

I wonder how it plays out with the example of my DDs. Number one, no additional needs, slips over on school trip to the middle of nowhere and breaks elbow on rock. She gets taken to hospital, plastered and returned to trip. No problem, they had planned for the eventuality of someone hurting themselves.

But if DD2 wants to go, because they already know she could dislocate her shoulder if she slips and the same rock, she's a risk they can't take?

If the school has enough people to handle the legal and practical requirements for 30 kids when one might get injured, they have enough staff to deal with one getting injured, whoever it is.

And travel insurance is available for preexisting medical conditions such as EDS, etc - I used to work for a company that sold it.

SingleSue

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Refusing to take a child on educational visits because they're disabled?!!!!!!!!!!

Words fail me....

Yes it does happen, my two younger boys were not allowed on the year 6 trip because of their needs and the concern that the teachers would not be able to cope.

Morag - Eldest did ask the organisers at the presentation night if his 'enablement' (how he thinks of himself) would cause any problems and explained how he thinks about it...they said that with an outlook like that, it should be no problem at all but to get clearance from specialists first.

But that is my concern, we could go down the road of booking his place and then someone turns around and says that due to insurance or whatever, he cannot go, he would be absolutely devastated.

Invasion

sh1305 wrote: »

Could they not hire a taxi for you? I remember in 6th form, having to go to a different 6th form for a subject; as it wasn't taught where I was based. There was someone there who was a wheelchair user and he went to the other 6th form by taxi.

The rest of us went by minibus.

I did have a taxi provided by the council for getting to and from college when I went in, but they couldn't take me anywhere but college, because of insurance reasons again, and their contract with the council. Complete pain. Part of the reason they wouldn't let me on minibus was to do with me having to go up the steps on my bum, not safe apparently!

morag1202

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But if DD2 wants to go, because they already know she could dislocate her shoulder if she slips and the same rock, she's a risk they can't take?

If the school has enough people to handle the legal and practical requirements for 30 kids when one might get injured, they have enough staff to deal with one getting injured, whoever it is.

And travel insurance is available for preexisting medical conditions such as EDS, etc - I used to work for a company that sold it.

Think it through though. You have a class of 30 so you factor in a ratio of 10:1 plus 2 to deal with a broken elbow = 5 staff. In the case of your DD they have to factor in a ratio of 10:1 plus 2 to deal with her if she dislocates her shoulder plus 2 to deal with a broken elbow = 7 staff. It's not one it's two.

But you don't have 7 staff to go on the trip without leaving the rest of the school short, so you have to hire a couple of supply teachers so the cost of your trip is too much so your alternatives are to cancel trip for everyone or your DD doesn't go.

This isn't really a school thing at all. The Local Education Authority has the ultimate responsibility for trips and gives the guidelines to schools. These guidelines quite rightly err on the side of safety BUT in some cases the sheer cost of taking a disabled child means the trip is a non starter or the child does not go.

I obviously don't know the ins and outs of insurance but do know that the cost of school trip group insurance is factored into decisions and as Invasion said, she could not go on a trip because of it.

SingleSue wrote: »

Morag - Eldest did ask the organisers at the presentation night if his 'enablement' (how he thinks of himself) would cause any problems and explained how he thinks about it...they said that with an outlook like that, it should be no problem at all but to get clearance from specialists first.

But that is my concern, we could go down the road of booking his place and then someone turns around and says that due to insurance or whatever, he cannot go, he would be absolutely devastated.

Sadly, organisers of presentation won't be doing the RA

I posted because I guessed he'd be gutted and wanted to flag up my concerns. Why not post in PN's - Lydia would give you a good idea

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Why does a dislocated shoulder in my example need two staff when only one is needed for a broken elbow?

I did think about it, thanks very much.

Yes, a child may need specialised insurance to cover any medical expenses. The relevant charities can usually provide details of insurers, as can people doing the presentations. It's part and parcel of compliance with the DDA. As any qualified Brownie Leader also knows as part of their training to be licensed to take kids on Pack Holidays. In fact, when renewing my training, we were specifically advised that refusing to take a child because they would be too expensive/too much like hard work would leave the organisation open to prosecution.

The X FIL also advises a scout district on similar things and confirmed that if a leader came up with an activity plan which made it impossible for a particular child to join in, the procedure was to politely suggest they redrew the plan, offering support and advice from someone else within the organisation if needed.

I have insured other adults and children (and been insured myself) for rockclimbing, mountaineering, abseiling, windsurfing, sailboarding, snowboarding, skiing, paragliding, canoeing, white water rafting and plenty of other activities, all with long term conditions, some with life limiting ones.

I thought we were past the stage of thinking that all differently abled kids should just sit at home and not bother trying to stretch themselves, in case Health and Safety deem them to be a risk?

SingleSue

morag1202 wrote: »

Sadly, organisers of presentation won't be doing the RA

I posted because I guessed he'd be gutted and wanted to flag up my concerns. Why not post in PN's - Lydia would give you a good idea

Yep, my concern exactly.

PN's? Ahhh with you now.

Invasion

Can I ask those of you who have hypermobile joints/HMS, about pain? I'm very clicky, my hips, knees, wrists, elbows, back, neck, everything clicks.

I have hypermobile knees and elbows, knees more so though, this was picked up on by my dance teacher when I was about 8 or so, and was noted again a couple of months ago by a physio.

3 years ago I had a skiing accident and bruised my meniscus, my knee was hugely swollen and couldn't straighten it (though they put it in a splint, I cried ) and black and blue. I had X-rays, was told to take ibuprofen and see Dr when back home, and sent back to the hostel.

When I got home we went to the GP who referred me to physio, were I was given anterior knee exercises which I did religiously. Still in lots of pain, ultrasound and some other thing involving electrodes and bandages- overall I was in physio for a year and there was little improvement, eventually they MRI-d it, and nothing showed up and I was told that the pain would go eventually.

It still hasn't. I wonder if part of the problem is my knee joint, cos it doesn't stay straight when I stand- it bends backwards- it puts extra pressure on the meniscus, and if I do manage to stand for a couple of minutes with crutches I feel it the whole day. It's just frustrating to have it niggling even when I'm sat in my wheelchair- as it's bent then- and for there not to be anything that shows up.. yet another mysterious thing they can do nothing about!

Saversue

Thanks for the Welcome Big Zippy.
Glad to hear you got your DLA Oscar The Grouch.
I have asked for my DLA to be reviewed as only given a one Year HRC & HRM and have been receiving it for 10 years now, so doesnt make much sense. This time it was based only on my evidence, but just had a letter to say they have contacted my Consultant. That should be a good thing as both he and my GP have said they will support me.
But it's still a horrible time, so my sympathy to anyone else in a similar position.

I know it's very confusing, but SINGLESUE and SAVERSUE are two separate people. Singlesue I have been reading some of your posts and you really do have a huge amount to deal with, how do you cope?

It's time to take the rest of my 40+ tablets for today and try to get some sleep before its light. does anyone else suffer from problems sleeping even though they are taking sleeping tablets and enough pain-killers to knock out a horse?

bigzippy

TOBRUK wrote: »

Hi bigzippy, nice to see you! Hope you managed to sleep a little - you must have been falling asleep as I was waking up HA!

Thanks. I managed to get to sleep after having a brainwave of using an ice-gel-pack thing on the back of my neck and on my head to cool down enough to get comfortable to go to sleep. I tried paracetamol and it wasn't working.

TOBRUK wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure if I did the right thing writing to them although I do believe that I do need care in accordance to their guidelines and can't understand how they could drop the care rate as there was no change from my previous application, I am actually worse - as a result I have to sell the house to buy a bungalow and move near my family so that I can receive more help with my care.

I am very worried on how they will look at this - especially after they awarded me HRM and LCR indefinitely this time, but it's out of my hands now!

I can understand your worry, but I honestly don't think they'd be able to just stop it anyway. I think if they were to take any action on your claim they'd just do another review, with another application or an appeal. Can I ask, did you get any help to fill in the form last time? I ask because I went to MILs the other morning while Welfare Rights were there to go through her DLA renewal form (which is overdue and they've actually stopped her bens!!:eek:) - anyway, my point is that a) you seem have a lot of issues that MIL has - and she's (WR woman) after a lifetime award for her on higher than LRC. b) I mentioned that I needed to do mine soon (not sure when it's due) and she was very sternly instilling in me that I do NOT do it alone, that i should definitely get help from one of the organisations, and that loads of people are not getting the awards they should really be getting because the government have given a target of getting 80% off DLA etc and back into work! 80%!! that's SCANDALOUS!

Saversue wrote: »

Thanks for the Welcome Big Zippy.
I know it's very confusing, but SINGLESUE and SAVERSUE are two separate people. Singlesue I have been reading some of your posts and you really do have a huge amount to deal with, how do you cope?

It's time to take the rest of my 40+ tablets for today and try to get some sleep before its light. does anyone else suffer from problems sleeping even though they are taking sleeping tablets and enough pain-killers to knock out a horse?

You're very welcome

I noticed you're getting confused - I think it's not helping that the initials would be be SS in both cases too. And if Suep stays around it's another sue to add to the mix lol

I have trouble sleeping from time to time. My doc was telling me that a lot of the time it's due to your brain being too hot and taking a couple of paracetamol can often help. I tend to find it's a particular problem if I've got a fever/infection or when "aunt flo"'s about , my temp really fluctuates then. Might be something to try? Esp as, I don't know about you, but one of my symptoms is an inability to control my core temp so it made sense to me... healthy people struggle enough to sleep in summer after all