Enquiry about benefits and housing?

GlasweJen

sorry i meant from a hormone pull sort of way not in a actual want sort of way. at 16 your hormones are all over the place and it's a phase where you see a baby and immediately want one. the sensibles will realise there's more to it than talc and johnsons baby shampoo and wait til they're older and some not so sensible will get engaged to a slightly older guy and delude themselves thinking that a baby is the next step and what's needed to make the relationship perfect until they realise that they have no money, no house and the baby doesn't stay quiet just because mum and dad are trying to sleep.

Oldernotwiser

GlasweJen wrote: »

sorry i meant from a hormone pull sort of way not in a actual want sort of way. at 16 your hormones are all over the place and it's a phase where you see a baby and immediately want one. the sensibles will realise there's more to it than talc and johnsons baby shampoo and wait til they're older and some not so sensible will get engaged to a slightly older guy and delude themselves thinking that a baby is the next step and what's needed to make the relationship perfect until they realise that they have no money, no house and the baby doesn't stay quiet just because mum and dad are trying to sleep.

My hormones never pulled me this way, although they pulled me into enough trouble in other ways!

bestpud

mouseymousey99 wrote: »

I suspect a bit of low self esteem here........(re wanting a baby).....and more than a bit of controling going on...would a 16yr old girl still want a baby if she suddenly had a 'life' with friends and a future....

I agree with the self esteem point, but I don't think it is safe to assume the 16 year old is definitely being controlled.

16 is too young to have a baby for many reasons imo but they are old enough to decide they want one at that age and also fully capable of controlling others (as well as being controlled themselves).

It is quite feasible this idea came, and is being pushed, by the younger partner.

I have a notion that many of these girls are unhappy at home, for whatever reason, and they also have a need for 'love' which drives them to have a child.

I think it's the idea of a little thing which will love unconditionally and will always be there to cuddle, as well as willingly wear all the little outfits they have in their mind for it. Basically, for some it is simply about having a purpose and being important to someone.

I'm not sure they need anyone to force it on them tbh, although I guess the suggestion, and thought, of a loving partner and loving baby may well add to the 'need'.

But then that could become a reason for the girl instigating the idea as well.

I don't know if I am putting this very well!

I'm trying to say she is very likely not mature enough to be a mother, but at the same time, that immaturity may well mean she is pretty persistant with wanting one and very capable of pushing the guy into it.

zoezoe_3

Oh my. How judgemental we have become? Currently the average age for a woman to have a baby is early 30's. If you ask your granny or great granny they will tell you that it was normal to be married in your late teens and children to follow.

Woman having babies in their 30's are 5 times more likely to have a baby with downs than a teenager. Woman in their 30's are more likely to need help with conception and help with the birth. These will cost the NHS. Women in their teens are more likely to have an easy birth.

This couple are young, but we don’t know them. They are asking for advice before steaming a-head with their plan. It will take them a while to conceive and usually another 9 months after that before the baby is born - she would be 17 probably 18 before they have a baby.

Who are we to judge and say that they can't? If they are working and going through college/uni then they won’t need much to get by and they wont be entitled to much in the way of benefits so why do we care. Once qualified the parents will become taxpayers in their own right and in 18 years or so - so will their child.

We live in a complicated society - you can't just tar people with the same brush and call people scroungers for wanting to claim to get through a tight spot. You can only really judge someone at the end of the life as to what they took and gave to society.

Why judge like you have?

briona

zoezoe wrote: »

We live in a complicated society - you can't just tar people with the same brush and call people scroungers for wanting to claim to get through a tight spot. You can only really judge someone at the end of the life as to what they took and gave to society.

There's a BIG difference between "wanting (or needing) to claim to get through a tight spot" and "choosing to get into a tight spot in order to claim".

If they had come here and said "we're 16 and 18 and expecting our first child, what help can we get?" the responses may have been different. After all once something is done, there would be little point in chastising them. But instead they came here to say "we want a baby – now how do we get a council house and all the benefits possible?" And I think THAT'S what's annoyed people!

zoezoe_3

briona wrote: »

There's a BIG difference between "wanting (or needing) to claim to get through a tight spot" and "choosing to get into a tight spot in order to claim".

If they had come here and said "we're 16 and 18 and expecting our first child, what help can we get?" the responses may have been different. After all once something is done, there would be little point in chastising them. But instead they came here to say "we want a baby – now how do we get a council house and all the benefits possible?" And I think THAT'S what's annoyed people!

yes and people want to

1. Go through University and ask the state to help fund them
2. Become self employed on a low income when they could get a better job
3. Start their own business and claim tax credits for a few years whilst they pay themselves NMW with the aim of making more money in a few years
4. Smoke and get ill
5. Eat too much and get ill
6. Get pregnant AT ANY AGE and claim child benefit and tax credits
7. Go school at get paid a ridiculous £30/week for the pleasure
8. Split up and run two house instead of one and have to claim benefits

It's often choice, and if its the amount of money that is annoying people then perhaps they should do some maths. How much of a burden will they actually be to the system over their lives ? No one knows.

viktory

Shadow919 wrote: »

Ok, so a fair few things to answer, firstly if anyone traces me then i am right in thinking thats against data laws as they are not allowed to give this out to anyone without permission from myself.

Anyway onto the rest of it, a lot of this has been my girlfriends idea for a start, she is living with her stepdad who i might add doesnt care too much about what she does, just as long as she behaves round the house. Her mother would care greatly but they have spoke before now and she has firmly stated she would help in any way she could.

Next, we are putting the child first as people seem to think we are not. Why be a parent when your older and your patience is becoming less, your physical ability is lessening. I mean how would you be able to take care of the child properly? You would get frustrated very easily, you wouldn't be able to run around and play with it so easily. We want it to have a life with it's parents, not with the T.V or computer as most children today do.

I mean people on here could say what they like about us being too young but isn't it being better being young and enthusiastic than just wishing it would go to its room and play with its toys out your way.

Next we have had experience of child handling, firstly i have a teaching assistant qualification and have worked with children right through the key stages, including those with disability. Also with this we take care of her little sister most of the time in the week, carrying round nappies, wipes and the like 24/7 along with looking after it, keeping it entertained, ensuring that she eats properly etc etc.

Next for those who keep abusing me saying that i can't type properly, firstly i am not going into Journalism am i? I'm looking at Architecture and therefore my 'grammar' does not matter so much.

We currently dont pay anything towards the utilities etc for a reason, my parents in particular have stated they dont want anything so that i can actually save for what i like. I understand all the costs whether its something i've learnt through A level business or not. I mean there's a lot of them, and as for housing costs i've done a fair few of them from the furniture/appliances to the utilities and possibly even taxes. I know there is a lot to consider and that's why i came here for advice.
One more thing i know who my girlfriend is as we've spent whole weeks at mine or hers every now and then when our parents go away, we know each other better than you could know or begin to understand so do not say that... I mean so far everyone's just trying to come up with reasons to stop us and even resorting to tactics like do you even know your partner... If i didn't would i even consider it?

The final thing is that our baby/child will be no fashion accessory, it will be where all our time goes, all our sleepness nights go, most of our money goes but at the end of the day we shall love it because it is ours. We will love the time we spend with it and we will more than love to watch it grow up, nurtured by our own hands.

Admirable words. Wrong, but hey, don't let a little thing like you being wrong get in the way of gleeful reproduction.

Have all the children you want - as long as you can pay for them, house them, feed them, clothe them etc, etc. Please do not expect me to pay for your children's upbringing or housing. Save some money, get an education, wait until you are in a position to go it alone, without the help of the Government.

Thanks

briona

zoezoe wrote: »

yes and people want to

1. Go through University and ask the state to help fund them
2. Become self employed on a low income when they could get a better job
3. Start their own business and claim tax credits for a few years whilst they pay themselves NMW with the aim of making more money in a few years
4. Smoke and get ill
5. Eat too much and get ill
6. Get pregnant AT ANY AGE and claim child benefit and tax credits
7. Go school at get paid a ridiculous £30/week for the pleasure
8. Split up and run two house instead of one and have to claim benefits

It's often choice, and if its the amount of money that is annoying people then perhaps they should do some maths. How much of a burden will they actually be to the system over their lives ? No one knows.

How completely ridiculous is THAT post?! :rolleyes:

And if ANY of that was some poorly veiled dig at me I can assure you that I came out of Uni with no debt whatsoever; I'm recently self-employed and earning FAR MORE than I was whilst employed; I have never claimed any kind of benefits, not tax credits, not JSA, nothing; I don't smoke and never have done; I don't eat too much; I've never been pregnant; nor have I been paid to go school. And I'm sure that there are many, many people who could say the same.

Where your argument falls flat is that you suggest that people WANT any of these things.

I've read countless posts on here from people who simply couldn't afford to get an education without getting into debt but can't be expected to better themselves without an education. Catch 22 not a 'want'. Students are initially funded through University with a student loan but every penny has to be paid back. This means that graduates start their working life in anything p to 20K of debt, but according to you they WANT this?!?

And how about the posts from people whose relationships have fallen apart and they have no option BUT to give up work and claim benefits so they can look after their children? I doubt that they wanted their relationships to end. There are several posters I could name who are in that situation and they frequently say that the one thing they want is to be able to come off benefits and support themselves. But it's not always that easy!

The EMA is for children from deprived areas who DON'T WANT to go to school or who might otherwise drop out. It's an incentive to encourage them to stay on and get at least some qualifications. So how can that be a bad thing?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to have children, but you have many years in which to do it. Why on earth would you rush out there and have children at 16?! By choice!!! It's not even as if you've tried anything else with your life at that age. More than likely you won't have travelled, or worked or even had a go at managing money. Why bring a baby into the equation?

zoezoe_3

Dig at you !! Good god - who made you the center of the universe? I dont even know a thing about you...

I don’t understand your point about student not WANTING the 20k debt that you mention? Did someone force them to go to university?
I have been

1. pregnant at 15 and chose to bring home the baby
2. Single mum on benefits
3. Single mum at 6th form doing a level
4. Single mum at university
5. Single mum working on some benefits
6. Single mum working on no benefits and paying twice as much tax each month than I was entitled to as a single mum of a baby in 8 weeks!
7. Happy couple and working
8. Stay at home mum to 3 children
9. Self employed
10. Any now run my own and successful software development business employing mostly mums as home workers

I am not saying that I did everything in correct or in the correct order but in the grand scheme of things, I have more then paid back my debt to society. Those years that I claimed benefits were hard, I was poor but I was grateful for the system.

"The EMA is for children from deprived areas who DON'T WANT to go to school or who might otherwise drop out.”

Odd I dont remember my daughter having to tick a box for "Don’t want to go to college". She wasn't entitled of course, so despite her wanting to go to college she has to work at the same time. Why on earth would you be happier spending £30 a week on children who do not want to go to college than a similar amount for a couple who do want to be responsible tax payers and bring up one more at the same time?

briona

zoezoe wrote: »

Odd I dont remember my daughter having to tick a box for "Don’t want to go to college". She wasn't entitled of course, so despite her wanting to go to college she has to work at the same time. Why on earth would you be happier spending £30 a week on children who do not want to go to college than a similar amount for a couple who do want to be responsible tax payers and bring up one more at the same time?

If your daughter is not entitled to EMA then it's because your household income is deemed too high. The EMA is intended for those from poorer families to enable them to continue to get an education where otherwise they might drop out.

Interesting though that you seem unwilling to accept that these people are entitled to a part-funded education yet quite happy to let the state fund a teenage couple who want a baby... It would be cheaper for the state (and more beneficial in the long run) to keep the teenage couple in education than it would be to pay them to have children!

zoezoe wrote: »

I don’t understand your point about student not WANTING the 20k debt that you mention? Did someone force them to go to university?

That's not an especially intelligent comment. What part of NOT WANTING a 20K debt do you not understand?! If someone wants to be an architect then they need an education and a qualification. If the only way they can get that is through going to University, then what option do they have? Perhaps they should stack shelves instead?! :rolleyes: