Kaupthing Edge CHAPS Transfer

truthsleuth_2

pmorrison wrote: »

LuKeNuKuM - I dont suppose you have a youtube clip or a link to the iplayer or something of your tv appearance do you?

Yes, you could put it on your website! And the one of Nomorekids too!

fredhaben

miserable_ol_so_n_so wrote: »

Need to know anyone here waiting, requested by CHAPS after 8th.

Yes. I requested my CHAPS transfer on the 9th, after I ING took over. Incidentally, I wouldn't have made the request if it hadn't been for the fact that ING'd taken over. I knew from the internet that KE had stopped sending CHAPS transfers through, but I'd expected ING to honour transfer requests immediately.

That's one reason I'm not worried about doomsday scenarios - there are folks like me also waiting, where there's no question about ING's liability.

bigg

Fellow puffin snatchers

I sent this off to the BBC news desk yesterday evening. I would like to amend the tense and send it to other news sites tomorrow. I welcome any constructive criticism and advise on other points to add, also other places to sent it, Working lunch is a definite:


I am one of several hundred posters on the ‘Kaupthing Edge CHAPS transfers’ thread at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com forum:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1205063

ING took control of the collapsed Kaupthing Edge Bank as requested by our Prime Minister, Gordon Brown. This replaced the guarantee we had from the FSCS.

On Tuesday 7th October, I initiated a CHAPS transfer of several tens of thousands of pounds back to my linked account, Halifax. The transaction appeared on my account on the 8th October, the day they went bust. This cleared my account, all but £1.

Since then we have had a very nervous 10-day wait to find out if the money is being returned. ING put several daily announcements up on the Kaupthing Edge website, the last one assuring customers that the majority of transactions will be completed by the close of business today, Friday 17th October, apart from a small quantity to be manually actioned.

After spending the day on the forum, I have come to the conclusion that some BACS transfers have completed but no CHAPS transfers have taken place, apart from 2 earlier in the day, which may have been test transfers. There are a lot of worried people wondering if their money will ever show up after being promised faithfully by ING it would appear by the close of business today. Several posters are completing on house purchases or have workmen ad builders to pay and can’t, due to no fault of their own.

Most of us, who are still waiting, have empty accounts at Kaupthing Edge and our linked destination accounts. Our savings have turned to dust.

How much more PR flannel do we have to put up with?

Will we ever see our money again?

Please can you investigate?

AB31

I'm usually glued to classical music forums but over the past few days I've been more or less devoted to this forum. It's been a fascinating experience. Like many here, I'm still awaiting my funds from Ing/KE. In addition I have my entire cash ISA (from the year dot) tied up in Icesave, so I'm extra !!!!ed off.

It has been a great help to know that I'm not alone in this K-E problem, even though I'm sorry for all those still affected. I know that some people have tried to make excuses for Ing, saying they don't deserve all the criticism heaped on them. But I disagree. I think they're a complete shower. They haven't put enough resources to deal with the outflows, and their helpdesks have been obviously staffed by a large influx of temps who haven't been properly briefed and simply spew out platitudes. I would never consider leaving any money there. In future, I'm playing extra safe with money and am prepared to take an interest rate hit, rather than go through anything like this again.

Here's looking forward to good news on Monday for all of us, but something tells me that there could still be problems. We'll see.

bigg

LuKeNuKuM wrote: »

fraid not :-/

it was on iplayer for a while but just checked now and it looks like it's been scraped *phew* it did make me cringe! :eek:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00dwdy7/Working_Lunch_10102008/

I’ll try and do it tomorrow, with your and nomorekids blessing.

It’s a bit of a pain, I have to edit it and convert it to jpeg before it goes up on youtube but it would be nice for those that missed the original showings. I had been thinking of doing it anyway.

drmaslam

Hi

I do not know whether my and my wife's CHAPS transfer (total 70k) is included in the grand total of in-transit CHAPS transfers. We made it on 7th Oct at 12:30 PM.

If not please add it. Can we make a new thread for unsuccessful CHAPS (read CHAOS) transfer as it looks there is a very looooooooooong way to go.

poodlediva

bigg - I thought of doing the same. I'd love to cause a run on ING and cause them some real grief. However, if this story runs and a run on the bank occurs, how much longer will it be til we see our money. I think we will soon have no choice to take this story to all the press, but let's give it til Monday just in case?

nomorekids

Hi folks,
Had to decrease the dust accumulation in the house to something hygenic so haven't been on all afternoon. But now upto speed. Can't believe tonights' bedtime story was 3 billy goats gruff (complete with Troll) LOL. Wish I'd sent mugshot of daughter, she is much more financially wise than me. Not a single penny of her toothfairy money has ever been spent and kept very safely under her mattress.

My 'friend' Alastair from ING didn't ring me back as promised.

Just a thought but if CH 'Automated' Ps is now manual , why can't our funds be bounced back? This has been covered before but that was when it was an automated process.

dag_2

Going back a bit ... miserable ol so an so said:

Its to do with BACS or CHAPS, and the way KE handle them.
KE can do BACS transfers inhouse. They cant od CHAPS inhouse, and use services of KSF. So when a chaps request comes in, they send it and the money, to KSF. Thats why our money left KE and went to KSF, where it is now stuck. BACS, since they do inhouse, the money never left KE.

Hmm, I don't have any more of a clue than the next guy, but unless I'm greatly mistaken, "Kaupthing Edge" is simply a brand name. It makes no sense to consider it to be a separate entity to "Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander".

That's not to say there aren't lots of different distributed departments, though, but I don't think it's case of having to ensure that cash that couriers have shuffled around from location to location is all properly accounted for before issuing transactions.

No, I'm guessing that what must have happened is that when ING Direct took on the KE accounts, the UK Government must have given them an approximate figure of the liability that this would involve, not least so that ING Direct could ask for reasonable compensation from the UK Government out of the assets they had seized from Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander.

And where would the UK Government have got that figure from? Yep - they would have got it from the totals of the balances of all the Kaupthing Edge accounts added together at the time.

So - what could go wrong?

Well - for one thing, the figure might not be totally accurate. For example, if you had asked Kaupthing Edge to do a CHAPS transaction at some point after they were frozen but before ING Direct took it over, then Kaupthing Edge may have deducted that amount from their record of your balance - expecting it to go through, and not expecting the whole savings account roll to be taken over by ING. So the figure which was passed from Kaupthing Edge via UK Government to ING may have been the lower figure - that is, after your CHAPS withdrawal request has already been deducted.

Therefore, as far as ING are concerned, this transaction dates from before the takeover, and therefore shouldn't be their problem; it should have already happened, and, more importantly, it's not part of what the UK government told ING their new liabilities would be. But the snag is, the transaction didn't go through, because of the freeze on KSF assets, which would mean that the transaction would have bounced back, and the money is probably now in the hands of the KSF administrators.

Add to this the fact that there were a whole load of new transaction requests for ING to deal with, which they naturally fell behind on because of the need to set up a system to actually deal with them.

So, my guess is that ING will try to clear the backlog of transactions that were raised or scheduled for after their takeover, simply because these transactions are more straightforward; they can process these without getting the KSF administrators involved in checking them. But in order to sort out the transactions that were put through by KSF in the window of the freeze just before the ING takeover, they will have to find them, which means that they will need to reconcile their up-to-date balance roll with the historical data held by the administrators of KSF.

Still - I don't know. I'm totally guessing. Point is, I can understand there being discrepancies in the initial account balance data that ING received, and I wouldn't be surprised if these had been caused by KSF reporting that transactions had gone through when in fact they hadn't, because they didn't realise they were frozen.

philiprn

I emailed the dynamic duo Hemmings and Rutland, got the same stock reply.

Kind of him to let us have his phone number - I suggets a few of us call him on Monday - 0118 938 1952 - Alastair Hemmings

CHAPS request for ~ 50k made 7th, debited 8th - still waiting