British Gas prices to rise by up to 60%??????

backfoot

You are deflecting away from the main issue by selectively quoting non pertinent points. Paul did the same talking about DD's,payment methods etc.It is perfectly obvious what I was saying about payment methods.

The main issue is simple.Why did the DD go up when the tariff is so much cheaper and the customer was already in credit?

SwanJon

backfoot wrote: »

The main issue is simple.Why did the DD go up when the tariff is so much cheaper and the customer was already in credit?

We don't have a lot of information to go on to be honest.
You said that there was £100 credit for gas and none (nor debt) for electricity.
You didn't mention when the plan started, so we don't know how far through the plan we are.
You seem fairly confident that the consumption hasn't changed at all since the plan started, but have you checked the kWh - it has seemed colder this summer than last (or is my memory failing me?)
When was the last quarterly statement and was it based on an accurate read? If not, when was the last accurate read? Was there an estimated read for the bill/statement before the plan started? (This could make it look like you've used more this year even if you havn't).
A few people have said the system bases it's decisions on the data it is given. this includes current and previous (not unannounce future) prices and meter readings.
There are occasions when consumptin has changed dramatically during a plan - in these cases itm ight be ebtter to stop the old plan and start a new one.

paulonline123

The example i gave was just that - an example - but if your direct debit went up despite moving to click 5 then your account must bear some resemblance to it. Your original point is that click 5 was sold to you as cheaper and it wasn't as your direct debit went up.

This is quite simply wrong.

Click 5 IS cheaper and so something else must have caused your direct debit to rise and this can only be your consumption.

I know its fashionable on these forums to think that Phil Bentley, the CEO of BG sits on his throne of old people's skulls and singles out DD's for rises for no reason but that's just silly.

If a direct debit system was institutionally wrong then of course it would be flagged not by outside sources but by BG's own people who, like in any call center, are more than happy to point out their companies flaws.

backfoot

SwanJon wrote: »

We don't have a lot of information to go on to be honest.
You said that there was £100 credit for gas and none (nor debt) for electricity.
You didn't mention when the plan started, so we don't know how far through the plan we are.
You seem fairly confident that the consumption hasn't changed at all since the plan started, but have you checked the kWh - it has seemed colder this summer than last (or is my memory failing me?)
When was the last quarterly statement and was it based on an accurate read? If not, when was the last accurate read? Was there an estimated read for the bill/statement before the plan started? (This could make it look like you've used more this year even if you havn't).
A few people have said the system bases it's decisions on the data it is given. this includes current and previous (not unannounce future) prices and meter readings.
There are occasions when consumptin has changed dramatically during a plan - in these cases itm ight be ebtter to stop the old plan and start a new one.

The 'plan' started August 2008 after the switch from BG standard to Click Energy 5.

Consumption over the last two years averages out 11,230 kwh for gas and 2,225Kwh for electricity. The consumption patterns are consistent over the two years. The last reads were an actual read for gas and an estimate for electricity. The electricity was read the quarter before and the estimate is consistent with last year's corresponding quarters actual.

The last bills were 10/7/08 for gas and 25/7/08 for electricity.The credit balances at those dates were £98.28 for gas and £4.55 for electricity.

I calculate the annual bills based on the consumption levels for standard to be £472 for gas and £269 for electricity.This is based on the latest huge hike in charges.

The monthly DD's were £38.00 and £20.00 respectively.

The move to Click 5 should mean an overall reduction £183. i.e £15 per month ignoring the credits already built up.

This is all done on a calculator and not BG's computers or by Mr.Bentley.

Please tell me where I have gone wrong because it seems like my monthly DD's should go down but they have in fact put them up? Will they put them up further when the Clcik 5 rates are hiked?

backfoot

paulonline123 wrote: »

The example i gave was just that - an example - but if your direct debit went up despite moving to click 5 then your account must bear some resemblance to it. Your original point is that click 5 was sold to you as cheaper and it wasn't as your direct debit went up.

This is quite simply wrong.

Click 5 IS cheaper and so something else must have caused your direct debit to rise and this can only be your consumption.

I know its fashionable on these forums to think that Phil Bentley, the CEO of BG sits on his throne of old people's skulls and singles out DD's for rises for no reason but that's just silly.

If a direct debit system was institutionally wrong then of course it would be flagged not by outside sources but by BG's own people who, like in any call center, are more than happy to point out their companies flaws.

More data provided above in response to Swanjon. Does this help to clarify why it looks completely wrong, giving the impression that BG want more cash in their bank account at my expense than is necessary.

:eek:

sue149

just had my increase from £35 a month to £62 a month great eh

1carminestocky

sue149 wrote: »

just had my increase from £35 a month to £62 a month great eh

What tariff are you on and isn't there a cheaper one (there usually is! )?

SwanJon

backfoot wrote: »

The 'plan' started August 2008 after the switch from BG standard to Click Energy 5.

I meant the payment plan - you were on DD before. When was the last annual reassessment? Did they cancel the plan and start a new one (and send you all the useless related letters)? The payment plan would continue through the change in tariff unless they manually chose to do this.
This only affects things where the system sees a shortfall and tries to catch up by the end of the plan, which is possible 3 months (think they are reassessing each bill at the moment).

backfoot wrote: »

Consumption over the last two years averages out 11,230 kwh for gas and 2,225Kwh for electricity.

But they were different - how much by?

backfoot wrote: »

The consumption patterns are consistent over the two years. The last reads were an actual read for gas and an estimate for electricity. The electricity was read the quarter before and the estimate is consistent with last year's corresponding quarters actual.

This years estimates are hevily weighted by last years real readings so it would be similar.
Was it near your actual consumption though? Did you correct the estimated bill with an accurate reading?
The reason I asked about an estimated bill at the end of the last payment plan year was it could shift some of last years consumption into this year, so the system thinks you are using more than then.

backfoot wrote: »

The last bills were 10/7/08 for gas and 25/7/08 for electricity.The credit balances at those dates were £98.28 for gas and £4.55 for electricity.

I calculate the annual bills based on the consumption levels for standard to be £472 for gas and £269 for electricity.This is based on the latest huge hike in charges.

The monthly DD's were £38.00 and £20.00 respectively.
The move to Click 5 should mean an overall reduction £183. i.e £15 per month ignoring the credits already built up.

Remember that you will have had (at least) 3 tariff changes in the last 12 months (Jan, Jul & Click) - when were these DDs set?

backfoot wrote: »

This is all done on a calculator and not BG's computers or by Mr.Bentley.

Please tell me where I have gone wrong because it seems like my monthly DD's should go down but they have in fact put them up? Will they put them up further when the Clcik 5 rates are hiked?

The system will have based it on the info it has and when it expects the payment plan to end. (As above it has no effect on the price of what you are using, it is merely a budgeting tool.)
To get an accurate DD amount, call/write/email with readings for each and explicitly ask for them to close your old plan and begin a new one. The new one will be based on your accurate readings, readings for the past 12 months, and the (current) click prices. I'm not going to guarentee that your DD will drop, but is much more liely to be accurate.
Always correct estimated bills/statements, and (if the site works for you) it's easy enough to enter them whenever you feel like it (price/tariff changes, going on holiday, bored & geeky).

backfoot

SwanJon wrote: »

I meant the payment plan - you were on DD before. When was the last annual reassessment? Did they cancel the plan and start a new one (and send you all the useless related letters)? The payment plan would continue through the change in tariff unless they manually chose to do this.
This only affects things where the system sees a shortfall and tries to catch up by the end of the plan, which is possible 3 months (think they are reassessing each bill at the moment).
But they were different - how much by?

The plan started February 2006 when the property was purchased.the DD's have always been £38 and £20 respectively and was in excess of calculated bills hence why the credit has built up particularly on gas. Only now after the latest hike of 20+% is the amount about right for the standard tariff.

This years estimates are hevily weighted by last years real readings so it would be similar.
Was it near your actual consumption though? Did you correct the estimated bill with an accurate reading?

No there was no reason because it was accurate.

The reason I asked about an estimated bill at the end of the last payment plan year was it could shift some of last years consumption into this year, so the system thinks you are using more than then.

The electricity bill is predictable. The heating is gas and is therefore much more seasonal.There was no real crossover over the years or indeed the quarters.There is an adequate amount of firm reads to ensure consumption and billing is recorded and up to date.

Remember that you will have had (at least) 3 tariff changes in the last 12 months (Jan, Jul & Click) - when were these DDs set?
The system will have based it on the info it has and when it expects the payment plan to end. (As above it has no effect on the price of what you are using, it is merely a budgeting tool.)

Presumably they were happy with the DD's as credits were already built up.

To get an accurate DD amount, call/write/email with readings for each and explicitly ask for them to close your old plan and begin a new one. The new one will be based on your accurate readings, readings for the past 12 months, and the (current) click prices. I'm not going to guarentee that your DD will drop, but is much more liely to be accurate.

Why shouldn't it drop if the amount being collected is far greater than the calculated annual bill?

Always correct estimated bills/statements, and (if the site works for you) it's easy enough to enter them whenever you feel like it (price/tariff changes, going on holiday, bored & geeky).

Yes,it is easier with the online system to keep on top of this but it hasn't really been a problem. The only problem appears to be the excessive amounts collected, now raised again without any good reason.

It would appear that whatever I say,there is a possible minute technicality which is thrown up to justify the overcharging.Do you happen to work for BG?

In simple terms,there is adequate consumption history,fairly low usage, and annual cost can be reliably and easily assessed. On changing to Click 5, a near 25% saving would be expected but in fact BG have chosen to up the payments.

Astonishing !!

Cardew

backfoot wrote: »

SwanJon wrote: »

It would appear that whatever I say,there is a possible minute technicality which is thrown up to justify the overcharging.Do you happen to work for BG?

In simple terms,there is adequate consumption history,fairly low usage, and annual cost can be reliably and easily assessed. On changing to Click 5, a near 25% saving would be expected but in fact BG have chosen to up the payments.

Before the Board Troll chimes in, SwanJon has posted several times that he does indeed work for BG and has posted consistently helpful advice on this Board - it is very useful to have insight from any Utility company employee IMO.

It is surely better to have some informed views from people with knowledge of BG proceedures, than the usual screaming abuse of BG/NPower/EON/EDF etc that does nothing to answer your question.

On the face of it does seem an error for them to increase the DDs, even taking into account that BG are probably anticipating a rise in Click 5.

My reading of the posts from SwanJon and Paulonline123(another BG employee I believe) is that they are offering possible reasons for that increase in the DD - most of those reasons your subsequent posts demonstrate don't apply.

It is well accepted that BG's computer accounting system has many faults, however I suspect most are from the wrong data inputted, rather than an inherent problem with the program. Rubbish in = Rubbish out!