Diamond Resorts-is it a scam?

Tangible

Okay jchuillier shall we do the maths ?

I read this about Diamond Resorts International.

Anyone "..can go to ANY online holiday site and get a holiday in a supposedly members only DRI resort, and luxury accommodation??? for 1/2 the price that you and other 'happy members' have paid in fees."

Pick a resort.

The irony being that it appears that non-DRI members can pick any resort and probably receive priority, as they can shop anywhere and are not tied to DRI resorts.

The moral being that you may be better off holidaying in a DRI resort without being a member - and no management fees.

Now that's what I call a sales pitch.

jchuillier

Yes let's do the maths

Can some DRI member give us the number of points required for a "normal" resort in a "normal" week, let's say middle of november.

Then we'll look on the DRI site what's the cost in $ for the same rental at the same date in the same place and we'll know.

Now that the points are worthless it might be interesting to collect 15K+ points and have just the annual fees (2420$ for 17k points on ebay) to pay.

Then if you can get 6 weeks for 17k points (5*3k and 1*2k points) let's look if the rental of these 6 weeks in the same resorts amount to more than 2420.

Of course then you have to add the flights, food, car and so on but let's have a look.

Since I'm not a DRI member I cannot have access to the price of the resorts in points, only in $

I am not "fan" or "hater" of DRI, just curious about the price vs quality ratio, obviously I understand that the people who have invested all or almost all their savings and financial capacities in the product are not happy when the fees are rising (and I would not be happy) but once again, if you stop paying what are they going to do ? If they would win in court they would NOT send letters and calls for years before doing anything but they would go straight to court, the bottom line is that they are probably powerless to get anything in court because their contract is fundamentally flawed...

oscar55

I am DRI member and i would NOT recommend any one joining this club.I have been a member for a long time now and have 17000 points which i pay £1579.50 a year.My fees with Sunterra were £917 in 2007,so it just shows DRI can charge what they want.For a typical week it can range from 6000 points to 10,000 points and if you use Interval International you also get charged a fee of about £140 plus your points,so there is no way you will get 6 holidays a year.With Sunterra you used to be able to book half point holidays within 59 days but DRI are now gradually stopping this as well.I have just looked to see what is available to book on the DRI website and there is nothing in the UK,Spain,Portugal for the next 3 months that is how bad it is now.With a number of resorts been sold this year because of the 1000s of members not paying their fees there will be more resorts sold next year so my advice is DO NOT BE STUPID AND WASTE YOUR MONEY.

Tangible

It appears from a statement on one webpage that DRI suggested in a letter to one client that they could enforce the transfer of points to his children on his death - which is quite remarkable, virtually confirming that the acquirement of points is equivalent to a curse, that is then visited on the rest of the family in perpetuity.

Of course, I cannot verify the truth of this allegation, and DRI's alleged statement has no basis in law. Unfortunately the excesses of DRI have made them a pariah in the holiday business and it's difficult to see how they can repair their reputation.

One may often say frivolously that you wouldn't take something as a gift to show how little you think of it, but in this case, it would be folly to take DRI's points as a gift when they tie you in to a future of unlimited and unknown expense. Of course having created something that is now worthless, as people are trying to give their points away for nothing, they have a busted business model that no longer functions. Who would pay for points from them when their own clients can't give them away ?

It is reported that many clients are refusing to pay the management fees and that DRI are finding it difficult to collect the money.

I would even avoid their resorts as, unsurprisingly, holidaymakers report that they are infested with timeshare salesmen.

terryw

Tangible wrote: »

It appears from a statement on one webpage that DRI suggested in a letter to one client that they could enforce the transfer of points to his children on his death - which is quite remarkable, virtually confirming that the acquirement of points is equivalent to a curse, that is then visited on the rest of the family in perpetuity.

Although it does involve Diamond but another timeshare concern, you might find this thread interesting:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2815132

Death doesn't bring an end to timeshare fee

Tangible

A very interesting link and thread terryw but I have to say that the timeshare company's assertion that a person's liability continues after death is preposterous. I'm not arguing with you and feel sure that we have the same common view of timeshare companies, but the wobbly foundation underlying their claim is revealed by their own statement.

I asked the company what would happen if I bequeathed the timeshare to [timeshare company] himself and I was told he would refuse it.

... thereby revealing that a beneficiary under a will can refuse a bequest. The article I read also presumed that the heirs would be the timeshare client's children, which indicates a somewhat childlike attitude. I'm not a legal professional but there is no legal precedent for this assertion and sounds more like a wacky idea that crops up after a heavy session at the local public house.

What if the estate went to the UK government if the owner died intestate and no beneficiary could be found ? Would they sue the government ?

Basic principles of law and common sense dictate that one party cannot bind an uninvolved third party in a contract without their consent, and no person's legal obligations continue beyond the grave. They might seek to recover historic fees from the estate perhaps.

Tangible

For a company with its origins in the USA you'd expect them to have a more sophisticated ability to understand the workings of the market, but they appear to be surprisingly naive.

If people can't give their points away, and even DRI won't buy them, they literally are valueless in the most basic sense, so they make the proposition of their trying to sell them to new clients, hopeless. This must be why their target market is people on holiday, disconnected from usual means of investigating offers, like the internet.

Attempting to sell something without value isn't a business model at all and guarantees their eventual demise.

The UK laws regarding 'perpetuity clauses' tend to relate to land as that will exist in perpetuity, whereas people don't. It's a comic assertion to try to ascribe a perpetuity clause to someone or something that will never exist in perpetuity. Trying to then assert that to repair the fault in their legal proposition is to apply an obligation by means of forced inheritance is, as I said before, preposterous.

It's a surprise that the article wasn't more critical of the suggestion. Undoubtedly DRI foresee that their clients will be escaping their contracts by natural means more and more with the passage of time, and seek to plug the hole. But using wacky legal propositions, akin to their original sales tactics, won't help them.

In spite of having an unqualified legal brain, I can confidently say that a perpetual personal contractual obligation doesn't exist beyond the grave, and cannot be transferred to an unwilling third party. They might be able to recover money owed up to the point of death, but beyond that it's make believe.

Receiving such claims from timeshare companies in writing would be helpful as evidence of their attempts to apply unenforcable legal terms.

jchuillier

That's why I'm less worried about getting in their evil scheme

As you said the points are worthless, so you get a bug chunk of points on ebay, pay the fees, try the system for 1 year comparing what you get with what you invested (the fees) with what you would have gotten normally (booking, expedia, tripadvisor....) and at the end of the year if you don't like DRI you send them the points and the deeds back and you watch the "last advice before court" letters come through the post....

Basically if you do like that you come back to system which is "I can play as dirty as you"...

If someone wants/cans transfer me a "the club" membership with points because they don't want/can't pay the fees I might take it, let's talk...

Tangible

That's an interesting and brave proposal jchuillier . Many people could do without the hassle, irrespective of whether or not a timeshare company are able to enforce the imposition of swingeing management fees, and most timeshare victims have a defence that they can always use, if necessary, that they were missold the points, but that won't be available to you.

Taking on a lifetime continuing payment obligation, even without the upfront capital outlay, doesn't seem worth the effort and hassle and someone with the resources to fund that tactic may find having debt collectors being set on them, uncomfortable and awkward.

To highlight the flimsiness of the 'perpetuity' claim, if the company should be dissolved, your points and their obligation to you will disappear with the company. The only long term payment commitments most people make are for their homes and a car, which are two items that will last a period of time, but there can be no such comfort with a holiday company, and there's no reason to commit yourself long term to one company when your taste and circumstances are likely change with time.

If there ever were a good time to buy a time share, now is the worst time to get involved in one under any circumstances in my opinion.

lesoggy

Like the majority of people who have written before to this and other DRI complaint websites, I found out after trying to resign my membership, that hidden in the contract is a clause that states that I cannot resign and of course still have to pay ridiculously high membership fees, which I have no intention of paying.
What I find incredible, is that discussions have been going on since 2007 yet there doesn’t seem to have been any progress other than more avenues for discussion. WHY?
I recall that the BBC made a programme called Rip of Britain, hosted by Gloria Hunniford, Angela Rippon and Jenny Bond. I e-mailed the BBC this week and have been told that they are in the process of working on a new programme. If a story is of interest to them, then they will follow it up. Lets face it, we are being ripped off, trapped in a membership we cannot resign from, (and for which we have paid thousand of pounds) faced with increasing and excessive annual fees for holiday accommodation, which is often not available. A chance to highlight this exploitation lies with this BBC programme. If everyone wrote in on a particular date, creating a high volume of complaints, for example sometime in September (which will allow people to hear and react to the suggestion), maximum impact would be attained and maybe we will get some progress. As links cannot be posted
Web details and E-mail address can be googled under bbc rip of britain

I would be grateful to hear your thoughts and what points need to be highlighted.

Since writing this I have just had another letter from the debt collectors, saying I can now cancel my membership if I pay outstanding fees, so it looks as though things are getting a little a little tight financially for DRI and maybe they have realised that not allowing resignations wouldn’t hold water. One legal rep I recently spoke to said it may infringe on members human rights as it takes away our right to choose . I think using the Debt collectors was a “clever” rouse by DRI as the letterhead is mischievously threatening and people more likely to react to their threats than their own. So guys hold out with the fees, and send in letters of resignation
Oggy