Consumer Rights: MoneySavingExpert.com discussion

Art_2

I think you are getting similar advice from all of us. In order to prove an inherent fault you will need an engineer's report. If this comes down in your favour you can claim the cost of it back from the retailer. If it doesn't then you will have to pay the cost.

regards,
Art.

Freepost

Let's say I have my report. What then?

F.

Art_2

Freepost wrote: »

Let's say I have my report. What then?

F.

If the report says there is an inherent fault then you can speak to the retailer about a repair or replacement. If they won't play ball then you can go to the Small Claims Court and use the report to prove your case.

If the report doesn't find anything untoward with the PC from a manufacturing standpoint then you are not going to get anywhere.

Regards,
Art.

derrick

Art wrote: »

I think you are getting similar advice from all of us. In order to prove an inherent fault you will need an engineer's report. If this comes down in your favour you can claim the cost of it back from the retailer. If it doesn't then you will have to pay the cost.

regards,
Art.

Be careful with this, you need to get agreement from the court and retailer re the expert/independant engineer to satisfy SCC rules,(if it gets that far),or you could end up paying for the report regardless.

I would advise the retailer of your intention to do this under SoGA, and see what they say.

CAB Advice Guide;-
"expert's fees and expenses if you need an expert's report to support your
case. Where it is necessary to appoint an expert, this should be a single joint
expert, whose duty is to the court rather than to either party. Before instructing
an expert, you should try and agree with the other side on the choice of expert
and that you will both be bound by the expert’s findings. If you are able to
agree, the court is likely to accept the expert’s decision and you should also be
able to recover the fee if your complaint is upheld (up to the limit fixed by the
court)."

I had to do this about 3 years ago when I took a furniture store/company through SCC.

More CAB Advice re small claims court action.

.

Freepost

OK, We've assumed that I have had a report compiled and lets further assume that the report finds in my favour. I now contact the supplier to advise that the Laptop has an inherent fault as identified in the report and after a little bit of a discussion the supplier agrees to repair my laptop FOC but I have to pay the carriage and the supplier refuses to pay the cost of the engineers report because they never requested one! What then?

Also what calibre of engineer should write the report? Lets face it I could get a report for say £30.00 (yes gov. it needs a new circuit board widget!) or one written by an expert that costs £300.00. The expert report will identify the actual component that has failed along with the specification of the component that details the MTBF (how long the component should last before failure etc.). But if I've gone to the extent of using an expert then for perhaps only a few pence more, the expert could prove his prognoses by replacing the faulty component, hey presto the laptop works again! but I don't think the supplier will want to foot the bill!

To me this just seems the wrong way round, sure if the supplier wants me to prove that an inherent fault existed then I can get a report compiled and he would be fully aware that if the report finds in my favour that he would have to pay the cost. But prior to this I need to know what rights I have, you say I have none ...

Art wrote: »

You have no automatic rights to anything.

I believe I do....

Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet
URN No: 05/1730
Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

Of course the last bullet point would be covered by a report that you have mentioned.

Two days ago I knew next to nothing about the Sale of Good Act but since my first posting on Thursday I've done a lot of research, I've looked at a lot of other web sites and whereas I think it very unlikely to find one person with all the knowledge I think it's good that people are willing to share and give details of their experiences. With regard to the report, I think I will probably have to have one written but not initially. In the first instance I will hit the supplier, Misco, with a letter outlining my rights as identified in the sale of goods act.

The following letter was kindly suggested by blitz a member at the consummeractiongroup.co.uk

Dear Sir/Madam

I purchased a laptop from yourselves in December 2008, the laptop has now developed a fault. After previous correspondence you indicate that the item is out of warranty and you are not responsible. It is my understanding that a warranty is in addition to my statutory rights, and not a replacement of them; therefore you the retailer are still liable for any faults with the product.

When goods are purchased in the UK they must be made of a satisfactory quality, which requires them to last a reasonable amount of time, for which a reasonable person could expect under reasonable use. 14 months is certainly not a reasonable lifetime for a laptop, for which many people can expect to last for at least 3 years, the product is therefore not of a satisfactory quality outlined in the Sales of Goods act 1979 (As amended) s.14.

Due to this and as part of my statutory rights I require a replacement or repair within a reasonable time, without significant inconvenience. This is part of the resolution the Sales of Goods act S48B outlays. Should neither of these be possible then I would require a refund of the product as outlined in S48C.

I expect a positive response within 7 days, otherwise I will have no alternative but to consider legal action and reporting you to trading standards for a failure to uphold my legal statutory rights.

Yours Faithfully

I propose to send this letter and we'll see what Misco's response, if any, will be. I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

Thanks for your help.
F.

Freepost

derrick wrote: »

Be careful with this, you need to get agreement from the court and retailer re the expert/independant engineer to satisfy SCC rules,(if it gets that far),or you could end up paying for the report regardless.

I would advise the retailer of your intention to do this under SoGA, and see what they say.

CAB Advice Guide;-
"expert's fees and expenses if you need an expert's report to support your
case. Where it is necessary to appoint an expert, this should be a single joint
expert, whose duty is to the court rather than to either party. Before instructing
an expert, you should try and agree with the other side on the choice of expert
and that you will both be bound by the expert’s findings. If you are able to
agree, the court is likely to accept the expert’s decision and you should also be
able to recover the fee if your complaint is upheld (up to the limit fixed by the
court)."

I had to do this about 3 years ago when I took a furniture store/company through SCC.

More CAB Advice re small claims court action.

.

I have just seen your post and fully agree with you, thank you for your advise.
F.

Art_2

Misco is a reputable supplier.

Have you read Derrik's post where he gives you chapter and verse on getting a report. I suggested getting a report a few posts ago. You are likely to have to go down this route.

Regards,
Art.

Freepost

Art wrote: »

Misco is a reputable supplier.

Have you read Derrik's post where he gives you chapter and verse on getting a report. I suggested getting a report a few posts ago. You are likely to have to go down this route.

Regards,
Art.

Sure, I particularly noted ...

derrick wrote: »

Be careful with this, you need to get agreement from the court and retailer re the expert/independant engineer to satisfy SCC rules,(if it gets that far),or you could end up paying for the report regardless.

I would advise the retailer of your intention to do this under SoGA, and see what they say.

... but I think I need to know what Misco's response is to my letter. If they require me to obtain a report then we have to agree that together with costs. Additionally, I agree that Misco is a reputable supplier but they are not benevolent and if they think they can wriggle out of this then they will do.

Thanks
F.

Equaliser123

derrick wrote: »

Be careful with this, you need to get agreement from the court and retailer re the expert/independant engineer to satisfy SCC rules,(if it gets that far),or you could end up paying for the report regardless.

I would advise the retailer of your intention to do this under SoGA, and see what they say.

CAB Advice Guide;-
"expert's fees and expenses if you need an expert's report to support your
case. Where it is necessary to appoint an expert, this should be a single joint
expert, whose duty is to the court rather than to either party. Before instructing
an expert, you should try and agree with the other side on the choice of expert
and that you will both be bound by the expert’s findings. If you are able to
agree, the court is likely to accept the expert’s decision and you should also be
able to recover the fee if your complaint is upheld (up to the limit fixed by the
court)."

I had to do this about 3 years ago when I took a furniture store/company through SCC.

More CAB Advice re small claims court action.

.

This is wrong. There are no hard and fast rules on costs for small claims actions.

OP - if you proceed with the matter, wait until the Court issues "Directions" which will deal with the issue of expert evidence. It is possible that they will direct an independent expert for both parties but this is very much against the spirit of the Civil Procedure Rules which requires the parties to avoid litigation if at all possible.

For your own benefit and to weigh up the strength of the case, you should have expert opinion PRIOR to issuing proceedings.

derrick

Equaliser123 wrote: »

This is wrong. There are no hard and fast rules on costs for small claims actions.

Nothing wrong with what I posed, I went through it so I know it is correct, if you don't get agreement re an expert witness the court can refuse costs for said witness.

The rest of what you posted is more or less what I posted, but I linked to CAB Advice for my info,(plus personal experience).