Chip & Signature Cards.

Galstonian

There is, your assertions are wrong.

Altarf

lindabea wrote:

I must be missing something here with chip and signature cards. If a disabled person can sign for a transaction, surely they can key in a pin and conversely, if they can't key in a pin for whatever reason, then I would have thought, that they would be unable to sign. I do not understand why chip and signature cards may still be required after Feb 2006. Can someone please explain?
I'm sure there must be a logical reason!!

A few examples of the top of my head -

Partially sighted person who is able to read and sign a paper slip (with the use of aids), but not able to see the small LCD screen and small keypad properly.

A blind person using a PIN pad which does not have a raised 5 (stupidly these meet the banks 'standard').

A person with a degenerative disease of the nervous system who is unable to operate the small keypads, but can still sign a paper slip.

A person in a wheelchair who cannot reach a fixed PIN pad .

A disabled driver who fills up with petrol (using the attended service all stations now have to offer) who cannot go into the kiosk.

A lot of these problems could easily be resolved if the banks had set out a standard that all C&P terminals had to meet. Large clear displays, buttons of a certain size, buttons laid out in a set order, a clear colour scheme, a clear font. But no, they leave the design to the accountants and the 'designers', so you end up with style over function designed down to a budget. I was talking to someone recently and they were commenting how they had difficulty using the C&P terminals in Waitrose as the keys were dark green with light green numerals in an italic font - i.e. the designers had chosen Waitrose corporate branding but ended up with a very user unfriendly device.

M_Thomson

lindabea wrote:

I do not understand why chip and signature cards may still be required after Feb 2006. Can someone please explain?
I'm sure there must be a logical reason!!

Apart from certain groups of people who cannot sign due to a disability the option to sign in shops for non chip and pin cards will have to remain for years to come. First of all not all cards issued in the UK are chip and pin so what are these people meant to do? Also many countries worldwide are not chip and pin such as America and Australia, so when tourists come from these countries they need to be able to sign when the buy goods. For the same reason chip and pin cards issued in the UK need to have a magnetic stripe for when we travel overseas and need to sign.

James

Wrong - C&S cards are NOT restricted to 'certain groups of people who cannot sign due to a disability,' but are made available to anyone who has issues with PINs for whatever reason. Insist on a C&S card if you want one, it's up to you. Card issuers have no right to ask anyone if they have any sort of impairment or disability! Tell your card issuer you want a C&S card and be persistent.

saintstreaky

lindabea wrote:

f they can't key in a pin for whatever reason, then I would have thought, that they would be unable to sign.

Simply not the case. I'll bet you could sign your name without looking, providing you knew (say) it had to be an inch from the bottom of the piece of paper. I know I can. Most people don't sign by sight, it's the sequence of movements. But I know full well that I couldn't correctly use a reader without looking because, as I said, they're all different. If someone had decided from the outset to have a standard design, like the ATMs, with appropriate tactile features, it would have saved a lot of trouble (although there still would be people who couldn't use C&P).

And let's be clear on one thing: anyone is entitled to a chip and signature card. You, me, anyone who wants one. And the shops will take them. If you do have problems, as someone else said, just put it in the reader without saying anything, and it will run the process automatically.

If you don't like the idea of people seeing your PIN, ask for one. Yes, some of the call centre staff are muppets, but that's another matter. Ask to speak to a manager, even threaten to cut up your card and go to someone else. The more people who ask for them, the less of a problem it will be.

crippled_monkey

I hope I can clarify this a bit as I am 'on the inside' to a certain degree.......

A retailer only becomes liable for the fraud if they do not use the maximum security the card offers.

In the case of a chip and pin card, if they process the chip and pin, the bank are liable. If they bypass the pin and allow signature then the retailer is liable.

In the case of a chip and signature card, if they process the chip and the customer signs then the bank are liable for fruad. If they process the magstripe info and not the chip and the customer signs then the retailer is liable.

In the case of a magstripe only card, if they read the magstripe and the customer signs then the bank is liable. If they manually enter the card number (ie do not read the magstripe) and the customer signs, then the retailer is liable.

Feb 14th 'love your pin' day changes none of this at all. All types of card will continue to be accepted. The liability does not shift from what I have said above. The reason that the 14th Feb is not hardline in so far as 'no pin, no sale' is because the retailers are still seeing 5-10% bypass by customers. If they went hardline then a lot of shops, and the large supermarkets in particular would see their tills grind to a halt dealing with customers who do not know their pin and don't have alternative tender. I know the petrol retailers are especially concerned, as by the time you come to pay, you have already put the petrol in the tank. They cannot take it back if you cannot pay because you don't know your pin.

what you will see from Feb 14th is the banks start to increase the amount of delines on transactions where pin has been bypassed. This is to start to turn the heat up on customers to get them to adopt pin. I would expect an increasing hardline from the banks on this as we journey through 2006.

sorry for the long reply, but its not something that can be explained in two lines.

King_Of_Fools

crippled_monkey wrote:

what you will see from Feb 14th is the banks start to increase the amount of delines on transactions where pin has been bypassed. This is to start to turn the heat up on customers to get them to adopt pin. I would expect an increasing hardline from the banks on this as we journey through 2006.

What happens if a bank declines a non-PIN transaction at a petrol station?

crippled_monkey

If a transaction is declined by the bank, for whatever reason, there is nothing the retailer can do.

In that situation they need to ask for alternative tender. If that is not available, the various petrol retailers have different methods of dealing with these siutations. The hard bit is the fact they cannot take the goods back, because they are in the tank of the car. It is most likely they doa PNC check on the car, clarify the ownership and name and address and rely on the customer to come back and pay within a set timescale.

Not been in the situation myself............

James

"what you will see from Feb 14th is the banks start to increase the amount of delines on transactions where pin has been bypassed. This is to start to turn the heat up on customers to get them to adopt pin. I would expect an increasing hardline from the banks on this as we journey through 2006."


If there was a ever a good reason, especially for stoozers to get hold of a chip & Signature card this it. PIN = a card that says NO!

Galstonian

crippled_monkey wrote:

A retailer only becomes liable for the fraud if they do not use the maximum security the card offers.

Surely this depends on the technology available to the retailer as well? If they have no C&P terminal they cannot read the chip, if they have no mag stripe reader they cannot read the mag stripe. I have had to sign card imprints as recently as a few months ago. Some premises accept credit cards but don't even have electricity!