Chip & Signature Cards.

M_Thomson

chodges84 wrote:

calm down,

He wasn't disagreeing with you, any retailer can turnaway any payment type.

What he is saying is that retailers won't stop accepting Chip and Sig, as they stand to lose sales too foreigners if they don't accept them.QUOTE]

Not just people from Overseas either. I have 2 Amex cards one of which doesn't have a chip and one which is Chip and Signature and they both run out in 2007.

DesG

B&Q , that would be the non chip and pin retailer? (or is that just my local stores)

Your situation doen't provide any benefit to me, if you lose your C&P card, you can be sure you can run it up to the credit limit just as fast as a C&S card.

M_Thomson

JoseChungsDoomsday wrote:

excuse me but I am not silly and I will remind you that you agreed with me that a retailer can refuse any payment it wishes. having working in the banking and retail sector i know all how well retailers (especially small retailers) can be picky about the small print in these matters.

I also work in banking, and I know what the rules will be from next year.

YorkshireBoy

DesG wrote:

Your situation doen't provide any benefit to me, if you lose your C&P card, you can be sure you can run it up to the credit limit just as fast as a C&S card.

I wasn't asked to give a "benefit" Des. You asked for an "example" of where a C&P was better than a C&S. I believe I gave you one.

DesG

YorkshireBoy wrote:

I wasn't asked to give a "benefit" Des. You asked for an "example" of where a C&P was better than a C&S. I believe I gave you one.

What I meant was it didn't show a benefit (of having a C&P card over a C&S card) in the example you gave, to me. (I could have worded it better)

In your example, if you lose you card, it doesn't matter if it is C&P or C&S, it can be abused by naughty people, up to your credit limit. So, no, you havn't provide an example of how a C&P is better than a C&S

Of course if someone saw you enter your pin before you lost it, the benefits of C&S become a no-brainer

I fear we are going over old ground tho You stick with your choice and I'll stick with mine and we'll all be happy.

Cheers, Des.

YorkshireBoy

DesG wrote:

I fear we are going over old ground tho You stick with your choice and I'll stick with mine and we'll all be happy.

I actually agree with you and think C&S is safer, especially having seen a truly ridiculous key pad installation today in Sainsbury's. Why is it that you have to stand behind a line when waiting in a queue at an airport check-in desk, yet you can have someone breathing down your neck at a supermarket kiosk when you're keying in your PIN?

But you set a challenge, and I like challenges (and playing devil's advocate).

chodges84

YorkshireBoy wrote:

Blindness and dyslexia immediately spring to mind, although I'm sure there are more (and it's 5 buttons including the enter key).

True Story. That's very ignorant of me.

I still prefer chip and pin cards though, although the benefits will only be recognised when every shop only takes chip and pin (such as B&Q in the example earlier).

Rafter

Blind people already use ATM machines and all keypads have a raised 5 just like on computer keypads for blind people to orientate themselves.

I agree a one handed blind person might have trouble shielding the keypad and the pad positioning is dreadful in some stores.

My local Sainsburys has just installed c&P on its fast checkouts so high that a wheelchair user or anyone under 6 foot would find it difficult to shield themselves.

However......

It is still much much harder for someone to overlook and see which order you pressed unless you do it very deliberately. So much harder than simply copying a signature which is very rarely checked anyway.

Would you be happy if an ATM machine accepted a random signature instead of a pin? Even as a blind person? Probably not, so why should paying for goods and services be any different?

Retailers who don't think about their pad location is a problem, but having a more secure way to pay for stuff - don't have a problem with that.

R.

saintstreaky

Rafter, the problem seems to be the layout of all the different keypads is different (whereas for ATMs they're pretty standard). The numerical bit is consistent, but how would you know which is the enter key? That can be in several different places, in my experience. I haven't noticed that it's raised, or has anything it distinguishing it at all - at least not consistently on every reader (I think on ATMs it has a raised circle or something on it?)

lindabea

I must be missing something here with chip and signature cards. If a disabled person can sign for a transaction, surely they can key in a pin and conversely, if they can't key in a pin for whatever reason, then I would have thought, that they would be unable to sign. I do not understand why chip and signature cards may still be required after Feb 2006. Can someone please explain?
I'm sure there must be a logical reason!!