Changes to BT 1280

Heinz

wakeupalarm wrote: »

What is the process of switching back to BT? I'm on TalkTalk CPS. Do I ring up BT and ask them to cancel the CPS or do I have to call TalkTalk and cancel the service?

Contact BT.

jhp

wakeupalarm wrote: »

What is the process of switching back to BT? I'm on TalkTalk CPS. Do I ring up BT and ask them to cancel the CPS or do I have to call TalkTalk and cancel the service?

https://www.secureorder.bt.com/phone/weekendsignup/


http://bt.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bt.cfg/php/enduser/cci/bt_adp.php?p_sid=KBm*AYej&cat_lvl1=345&cat_lvl2=349&cat_lvl3=745&p_cv=3.745&p_cats=345,349,745&p_faqid=8304

bbb_uk

wakeupalarm wrote: »

What is the process of switching back to BT? I'm on TalkTalk CPS. Do I ring up BT and ask them to cancel the CPS or do I have to call TalkTalk and cancel the service?

Remember you will be subject to a minimum term if you opt for the so-called free evening and weekend tariff, or their unlimited tariff for £4.95.

BT's unlimited tariff for £5.95 is the one without any minimum term contract if that's what you thinking of switching to.

System

Please all complain to BT (if you are a BT customer) and Ofcom about this. It's getting worse. BT is purporting to have changed its t&c for domestic telephony "with effect from 16 September 2008" to include:

3. If you make calls with another calls provider, you may not have the option to make calls with BT and have them charged to your BT bill. Depending on how your calls provider provides your service, dialling the prefix 1280 before the full telephone number may not result in the call being chargeable by BT. 1280 calls may instead be chargeable by your pre-selected I]sic[/I call provider, at that provider's current rates.

I am formally writing to BT HQ to state that we do not accept this unilateral purported change to our contract. We hold BT Retail responsible for routing our calls according the instructions we give, either call-by-call (eg using 18185) or by over-ridable pre-selection of a (default) provider. Moreover, currently BT Retail is contracted to provide all our calls to UK geographic numbers, and CLI, for a fixed (but re-negotiable) monthly charge, and cannot unilaterally frustrate this contract by conniving with BT Wholesale to allow another provider to take control of all our calls.

The BT Wholesale website seems to me to imply that they have done some deal with Ofcom which is supposed to ensure "equivalence" of CPS and Wholesale Calls Line Independent. However, for money-saving consumers, the products are plainly not equivalent at all. Ideally, Ofcom would insist that all retail CPs must allow all indirect access. (I don't know why Ofcom failed to do that; some rubbish about allowing new providers a decent scope to make a profit?)

I suspect that BT as a group is deliberately trying to stop people from shopping around for the best deals on the various call categories. If they get away with WCLI, BT Retail collects standard line rental plus the charge for CLI, and does not have the annoyance of billing the customer for BT calls, because the customer can't make any. Meanwhile, the customer is still paying BT Retail for, at least, "free" weekend and evening calls. BT Wholesale collects the wholesale margin on the customers' calls.

The BT "changes to 1280" webpage is, incidentally, wilfully irresponsible in urging people to bring their calls "back" to BT. If a customer who has CPS of Sky bundled with Sky broadband tells BT to switch off the CPS, for fear that BT Retail will allow Sky to morph it to WCLI, Sky will (I guess) switch off the broadband.

Possible points to make to Ofcom include that BT Retail must not be allowed to weasel out of its obligation to allow indirect access, and that CPS must not be allowed to morph into another product which is not over-ridable by the customer.

BexTech

YoungNick your post makes no sense.

Surely BT would want you to use BT for some calls and not prevent you from using them.

It just seems Sky have switched to a different service and not a CPS service. This is an issue with Sky, not an issue with BT.

Sky is switching people to WCLI from CPS, so BT should be warning customers that they can no longer use BT for the cheaper calls - good on them for informing customers.

This is why many people are dumping Sky for calls and switching back to BT or going to Primus, why should Sky have the service to prevent you hoping back onto BT for the cheaper calls.

TheDink

Surely YoungNick is right on this. BT Wholesale are offering new services to other calls providers. If the calls providers take up these services, then the customers of the calls providers lose their right to choose the call carrier using the 1280 override code. We all think Sky are in the wrong for implementing this, but surely BT are also in the wrong for offering the service in the first place. There is nothing to stop all the other calls providers moving over to the new services too.

System

I think, BexTech, that BT Retail wants us to use BT Retail for all our calls. And I think BT Retail hopes to capture us for broadband too, by relying on the fact that other cheap providers of broadband, such as talktalk and Tiscali, only sell broadband bundled with telephony. So BT Retail is conniving in this WCLI scam, because it prevents people buying cheap broadband from Sky, while still taking cheap telephony from BT.

Because BT Retail is obliged to allow indirect access, their charges for calls to mobiles, 08x numbers, and (some) international destinations have to be reasonable (because if they overcharge too outrageously, informed customers will use 18185 etc instead). In contrast, because spineless Ofcom allows other providers not to allow indirect access, other providers can and do charge their captive customers inflated prices for calls to mobiles and 08x numbers.

If BT Retail can't grab all our calls, the next best option for the BT Group is this new scam, WCLI. BT Retail gets the (modest) retail profit margin on the line it pays BT Wholesale for, plus the (I suspect) huge profit margin on CLI. BT Retail doesn't have the hassle of billing the customer for any actual calls. Meanwhile, BT Wholesale collects the wholesale profit margin on all the customer's calls, and the (huge) wholesale profit margin on the wholesale line rental (except on occasions when the line breaks and the customer can't be fooled into thinking the fault was on the customer's premises). And Sky has the hassle of billing the customer for the calls.

The customers who Sky is currently slamming onto WCLI have two contracts, one with Sky, and one with BT Retail.

Whether Sky are in the wrong depends on their t&c (which I haven't studied), on the Unfair Contract Terms regulations, on Ofcom's (usually spineless) enforcement of competition, on the European Commission's (often effective) prevention of the abuse of market power, and on whether a UK court would hold Sky to be inducing a breach of the contract between the customer and BT Retail under which BT Retail is contracted to provide some calls. If Sky's t&c say words to the effect "sign up for Sky telephony and we'll prevent you using any other call provider, even if you are still paying BT Retail for a BT Retail calling plan including some calls and CLI", and if Ofcom, the EC, and the UK courts allow them to get away with this, then Sky are not in the wrong.

BT Retail is definitely in the wrong. They are contracted to provide (at least) evening and weekend calls, plus CLI, for a stated monthly fee. In some cases, they are contracted to provide this for a year or more. They are obliged to allow indirect access. They should be instructing their supplier BT Wholesale not to sell any product which will prevent them, BT Retail, from fulfilling their contractual obligation to their customer. Moreover, in my opinion, by selling WCLI to Sky for the line of a BT Retail customer, BT Wholesale is liable for damages for inducing a breach of the contract between the customer and BT Retail.

HP1_3

Does anyone know a way out of a sky blocked line as 1280 wont work!!

Heinz

HP1 wrote: »

Does anyone know a way out of a sky blocked line as 1280 wont work!!

If you're only on Sky Talk CPS, change your CPS calls provider.

If you have Sky line rental too, you'll need to change back to BT line rental first and then pick a CPS calls provider.

System

HP1: Heinz's suggestions are the best if you want a simple way out. If you are paying BT for one of their "calling plans", and if you feel like playing hardball, then

(a) write to, or email, Sky on the lines:

I am paying you for calls I prefixed with 1280 only under protest. My contract with BT Retail requires BT Retail to carry calls that I prefix with 1280 (and the clause in their purported latest terms and conditions which pretends otherwise is manifestly unfair, and therefore void).

As I understand it, Sky has slammed me onto a BT Wholesale product called "wholesale calls line independent" which stops 1280 from working as my contract with BT Retail requires. I demand a refund for the calls you have improperly billed me for, by 17 October 2008. If BT Retail has, in effect, subcontracted these calls to you, then you must look to BT Retail for payment.

If I have not received a full refund by 17 October 2008, I will issue a summons in the County Court claiming damages on the grounds that Sky, by slamming me onto WCLI, has induced a breach in the contract between me and BT Retail.

(b) write to, or email, BT HQ on the lines I suggest in the thread entititled talktalk blocking access to 1280:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1195505
Incidentally, that thread title is not quite accurate. It's not (simply) talktalk blocking access. It appears to be a conspiracy, possibly even a criminal conspiracy, between BT Wholesale, BT Retail, and other providers such as Sky and talktalk, to prevent consumers from accessing anything other than "all or nothing" telephony packages, and to drive indirect access providers such as Finarea (18185 etc) out of town.