Marriage over don't know where to start

kizzykizzywizzy

Ok so we are saying about 4 days then? - sorry this sounds awful, but what a bl**dy pain, we can't ever settle as they will have to be carted from pillar to post!!! I'm so angry for them, what an idiot, IF I thought for 1 minute he was unhappy of that we used to argue all the time, like he says we did, I'd hold my hands up & agree, but he is lying yet again to make what he did not sound as bad. Making out that he cheated on me because we argued so much that was upsetting for the children - what a load of *%$£"%

By the way he asked for a hug again, i refused - he's mad mad mad

Keeping_Motivated

Have you asked him who the hug is for? Him or you?

I think while he does not have a place of his own, with the childrens own things there, then for now maybe it has to be a temporary agreement. Then reassess once he is settled wherever he will be staying so they see it as a second home as won't be as unsettling to them IYSWIM.

For now he has seen so much of them and has held hands infront of them etc its now time to settle them into understanding things have definately changed so I understand what you are trying to do. Maybe it will help him (not that he deserves helping) to realise that its a temporary thing until he is sorted and can provide stability for them and like you said it is about them NOT him.

And when he comes up with the defence of well I thought it would be better for them as we always argued then just say 'Well if you wanted to help THEM why did you help YOURSELF and have an affair? If you were truly helping THEM then you would have gone to Relate or whatever it took to protect them from (phantom) arguments but keep their dad living at home with them. Not rocket science!!!'

Chip_Hazard

Keeping_Motivated wrote: »

Hi Kizzy

You sound like you are taking control and doing whats best for the children to me. What does he think is fair access that also takes into account how confusing/unsettling it can be for them at the moment?

He is definately wrong keep holding hands etc I just don't know where he is coming from with all that?! Its selfish, as he is not thinking of what its doing to you at all!

KM, Kizzy let him sleep in her bed on the first night they were away. Whether there was any touching or not, that sent out a strong signal to him that he still had a chance. Sleeping with someone in whatever circumstances is a semi-intimate action that will send a message to a man. Fairs fair, he didn't try anything on but Kizzy shouldn't have slept with him full stop. Sorry Kizzy!

As for access, I have mine from Wed 3.15pm - 8.00pm, collect from school, feed them, take them football training then drop them home. On Fridays, I pick them up at 3.15pm and keep hold of them until 6.00pm on Sunday. That isn't really enough for me to be honest but that is what I was given when I applied for a contact order at the court.

Keeping_Motivated

Chip_Hazard wrote: »

KM, Kizzy let him sleep in her bed on the first night they were away. Whether there was any touching or not, that sent out a strong signal to him that he still had a chance. Sleeping with someone in whatever circumstances is a semi-intimate action that will send a message to a man. Fairs fair, he didn't try anything on but Kizzy shouldn't have slept with him full stop. Sorry Kizzy!

As for access, I have mine from Wed 3.15pm - 8.00pm, collect from school, feed them, take them football training then drop them home. On Fridays, I pick them up at 3.15pm and keep hold of them until 6.00pm on Sunday. That isn't really enough for me to be honest but that is what I was given when I applied for a contact order at the court.

Chip I understand what you are saying but Kizzy has made it clear to him she wants him so ssurely if he doesn't want her HE should be the one to keep the boundaries so as not to give her hope or confuse her? If he says he definately loves this other woman why does he crave/need these hugs kisses etc? If it coz he isn't getting them from the other woman then that is just cruel.

I can understand also that you don't think your contact is enough its really unfair on dads sometimes and I always agree contact should never be stopped/hindered, however at this point, as the kids are confused, and he has no home the kids have to come before him and contact be regular and settled and in a routine, in my opinion.

And lastly I read your post saying maybe you should stop posting on this thread as being a man etc but I disagree coz its important many points of view come across so the girls can take/listen/read whats relevant or what helps them. We may not all have the same viewpoint but I like to read differing opinions, it might help me grow/learn personally and I respect other view points as we have all experienced different things so all have something valid to bring to the thread. So personally speaking I think you should say how you feel, not sure what the others think?

kizzykizzywizzy

He was already asleep in there with DD, I know it sounds weird, but I didn't go near him, he didn't go near me, it's that we are so used to being in the same bed, I didn't see the need to wake him up & ask him to move.
I suppose I should've said sleep on the sofa bed in the hotel, but again didn't touch, until he held my hand in the morning, don't know what that was about!!
KM - I've said all those things, he just ignores it all, I think he's more upset than he lets on, as I said he cried when i said DD doesn't mind if he doesn't go with her, but he never bothered before. I don't know what to think, he just seems to hard about what he's done to them, if I could see some remorse or anything - but nothing
Chip I DO HONESTLY understand where you are coming from & respect your view x

Keeping_Motivated

kizzykizzywizzy wrote: »

He was already asleep in there with DD, I know it sounds weird, but I didn't go near him, he didn't go near me, it's that we are so used to being in the same bed, I didn't see the need to wake him up & ask him to move.
I suppose I should've said sleep on the sofa bed in the hotel, but again didn't touch, until he held my hand in the morning, don't know what that was about!!
KM - I've said all those things, he just ignores it all, I think he's more upset than he lets on, as I said he cried when i said DD doesn't mind if he doesn't go with her, but he never bothered before. I don't know what to think, he just seems to hard about what he's done to them, if I could see some remorse or anything - but nothing
Chip I DO HONESTLY understand where you are coming from & respect your view x

Kizzy do you not think it was remorse when he cried when you told him about DD?

Fidget21

Hi Kizzy

I know it probably doesn't feel like it after today, but the two of you need to sit down and talk about his access to the kids. You need to be focussed and not deviate from the subject. You have to package up your anger at what he has done for the duration of the conversation and he has to refrain from being insulting towards you for the duration of the conversation. Other people have already advised on the amount of access, but if you do not sit down and organise it together things will start to get nasty and the only way forward will be via a solicitor.

The other thing that is absolutely vital at this stage is that the time with the kids has to be your time or his time. No more playing miserable, sniping happy families. It is upsetting the children and cannot continue.He is a father and has a father's responsibilities, the sooner he realises what this entails and accepts that the better...and it isn't just nice day trips to Alton Towers.

As for him saying about you always used to argue, he is doing this to justify in his head that he has done the right thing. Once again he is absolving himself of his guilt at your expense. As long as he can continue to convince himself that he had a miserable marriage with a wife he always argued with, whom he no longer wanted to be with anyway he can keep the guilt at bay. It's like as long as he keeps kidding himself that the moose will come off ship and they will have a wonderful life together then he can continue to belive he will have a happy ending. He is delusional.

Kizzy, you will get through this, but you need to detach yourself a bit and let your head take over from your heart for a while.

xx

tesuhoha

kizzy next time he wants to kiss, hug or hold your hand perhaps you should draw away from him and not just allow it. If this is hard then just think of where those hands, that mouth and other bits of him have been on the other woman because TBH you don't know what they've been getting up to. Hopefully that will put you off if you think about it in graphic detail.

Also it seems to me that your kids need a bit of space from him. They seem to be very unsettled and confused right now and he is aggravating it. Their needs should come before his and as their mother it is up to you to decide what is best for their welfare. If he can't control his mouth and his body in front of them then he is not a very good influence on them. Perhaps you should agree with him to let them have a couple of weeks to calm down otherwise if this keeps on you will have a hell of a life. Your son will have to get used to living without his father in the house at some time so it would be better now to make the break. He is their father but he's not a member of your family anymore. He doesn't want to be and therefore doesn't have the right to share your bed. Sorry to be harsh.

annamc75

I have to agree with Chip - it sounds like your OH is looking for reassurance that he is still a nice guy and likeable with that. All this hugging stuff is child like behaviour. It may not be a concious decision to seek approval for his actions but if it is (and he is trying to keep this options open) then the sooner he is kicked into touch the better.

The more you allow him to slip under your radar, the more hurt he is causing and the harder it is for you to move on. Every time he holds your hands, hugs you and tries to play the good guy you are letting him. He is deluded enough about your relationship (arguments, no love etc etc) without you allowing him to think that he is a good guy in all this.

You are going to have to grow a set of b a l l s and limit your contact with him until you can trust yourself to protect yourself. If you arent with him he cant hug, kiss, squeeze or otherwise.

Good luck.

Chip_Hazard

Keeping_Motivated wrote: »

Chip I understand what you are saying but Kizzy has made it clear to him she wants him so ssurely if he doesn't want her HE should be the one to keep the boundaries so as not to give her hope or confuse her? If he says he definately loves this other woman why does he crave/need these hugs kisses etc? If it coz he isn't getting them from the other woman then that is just cruel.

I can understand also that you don't think your contact is enough its really unfair on dads sometimes and I always agree contact should never be stopped/hindered, however at this point, as the kids are confused, and he has no home the kids have to come before him and contact be regular and settled and in a routine, in my opinion.

And lastly I read your post saying maybe you should stop posting on this thread as being a man etc but I disagree coz its important many points of view come across so the girls can take/listen/read whats relevant or what helps them. We may not all have the same viewpoint but I like to read differing opinions, it might help me grow/learn personally and I respect other view points as we have all experienced different things so all have something valid to bring to the thread. So personally speaking I think you should say how you feel, not sure what the others think?

Thanks for your post KM.

I know that Kizzy wasn't leading him on or sleeping with him in that way but it would have sent out a signal to him that encouraged him to think he was still in with a chance. The 'holding hands' bit would have done the same.

I held out hope for several months that I would get back with the twins mum. She lived about half a mile from me so it was easy for her to engineer circumstances that meant I'd be round at her house. She and I had sex a few times after we split but I didn't ever stay overnight as the boys would have come in at 7.00am in the morning and found me there. The sex was just really instigated by her as she was lonely but we both got something out of it. Looking back, all it did for me in my head was to prolong the idea that we still had a future when really we didn't.

Twice since then she has asked me round late at night making it clear why. I have turned it / her down both times as I know it would be wrong wrong wrong! Two years ago, I spent a few days with her daughter, the twins and her in a Haven camp on a "just friends basis" - she couldn't ever take them away alone, too much stress but I was on eggshells all the time. I'm sure she's jealous when I take the boys away and I'd bet £100 she wishes she could come with us but it ain't happening!