compulsory overtime

Zazen999

Aye, but if the training is part of the job; then it should be planned into the job. If they run a business, then training and development that advances the business, need to be done in business hours.

We're just going to have to agree to differ on this one.

poet123

I think we are! but if they run a term time business with term time employees,and have customers with term time requirements, when are they supposed to schedule the training?

Zazen999

poet123 wrote: »

I think we are! but if they run a term time business with term time employees,and have customers with term time requirements, when are they supposed to schedule the training?

You could say that about any business...

poet123

Not really, as most other businesses would have a range of employees who could cover the work whilst training was being done for those who were only term time.

Zazen999

poet123 wrote: »

Not really, as most other businesses would have a range of employees who could cover the work whilst training was being done for those who were only term time.

What I mean is; most businesses run 9-5, M-F. They have to manage their staff's time to enable training to happen. The term time part of this is irrelevant. They are trying to get people to attend work; outside of contracts hours in order to receive training. That is not fair, and any training that should be arranged needs to be done during the time they are at work.

Take summer staff. Available usually 3 months in summer, a fortnight at Christmas and same at Easter. We used to have a few of these, the same students, every year.

Their training was done during the time they are with us, at the start of their short or long season with us. It would never have crossed our minds to ask them to attend at any other time, because that is outside their agreement.

It is not outside the realms of possibility to ask that a business arranges training whilst staff are there, during their contracted hours.

As the OP said, they are trying to get away with hiring staff on one agreement, and making requests for additional attendance for training outside of that agreement.

For example; I work M-F. I don't work weekends. I used to when I needed the cash, but my contract gave clear remuneration regarding overtime within my contract. Once I had a job that was contracted M-F; I stopped working weekends, part of going for that job was the M-F aspect.

I did work one weekend, at the NEC as we were doing an exhibition. If I had been asked regularly to do this, they would have had to negotiate with me as my weekends are my own, I book weekends away, I see friends, I have a life. A one-off I'll do. Any more needs re-negotiation.

If you want this as standard from your term time staff, it needs to be re-negotiated, or made clear at interview, and within the contract. Not just slipped in as an added extra.

Coupon-mad

Your posts on this subject are a breath of fresh air, Zazen999. :j
You and surreysaver (earlier in the thread) have tried hard to explain to the others why a firm cannot legally expect part-time workers to attend training outside of their contracted hours.

The law states you cannot treat part-time employees differently than full-time ones. If you offer appropriate training to your full-time staff within their working hours then you have to offer the same to your part time staff who are doing a similar job and/or have the same training need. End of.

Like you, I have also managed a mixed team of full-time and part-time staff, including arranging customer service training for them. In my case it was easier to accommodate the part-timers by arranging the training on the days they worked anyway (IIRC I think one person was happy to swap their day that week, to attend the course, but I could not have insisted that she do so, nor could I have deliberately left her out of training offered to her colleagues).

In a relevant case I remember that made the nationals a few years ago, a female part-time employee won an unfair dismissal case against a huge male-dominated company (may have been British Rail, can't quite recall?). She couldn't attend the training courses they provided as they were all full-time courses and they made no attempt to provide training within her contracted hours. The training timetable was not mentioned when she took the job on a part-time basis. She was stuck between a rock & a hard place as she could not attend training that was a requirement of her job.

IIRC she felt forced to resign and then successfully claimed constructive dismissal.

Best of luck lill, don't give up. There are some who understand exactly where you are coming from on this thread.

Zazen999

Thank you very much Coupon-mad.

poet123

I dont think anyone has actually said they could legally force her to do the training. What has been said is that she could if she wanted to be flexible and accomodate her employers on this issue,and that what she has been asked to do was not unreasonable given the notice she was given.

surreysaver

At the end of the day, the OP's employer has advertised a job under false pretenses. They have advertised a term-time job, but expect part of the work to be done outside that time. It would be like advertising a part-time job but expecting staff to work overtime to make it up to full-time. Employing staff on the cheap, to pay less pension, staff benefits, and other costs. It is the same as an employee lying about their qualifications in order to get a job. You always see job adverts that do not tell the whole truth, miss out the not-so-nice bits of the job, exaggerate the better bits. If you lied on your CV and they found out, they'd dismiss you! But its OK for the employer to do the same?

poet123

It is not extra work it is training there is a difference.