compulsory overtime

lill

Hi can anyone advice on this,
I work term time only, it was advised as term time only, and when i went for the job I stated that the reason I had applied for the job was so that I would be off school with my kids, since I have started there has been numerous times that ive been "told" ( compulsory training) that I have to be in for training during the school holidays.
Although my contract does not state " term time only" it is for xx hours per week, and any time worked during the holidays has to be taken as paid and the hours cant be banked, due to them needing me to be available for work during term time.

This has now become an issue because we were "provisionaly" told of some training comming up and ive made other arrangements for that day.
Im now being told that it is a requirement of my job that all staff attend training and "events".

where do I stand on this?

this is my intended reply Ive not sent it yet so feel free to comment

XXXXX, Im sorry for any confussion only I was never told that there was any requirement to work "compulsory overtime" during the interview, neither was this part of the advertisment for the job.
I also specificaly stated in the interview that my main reason for applying for the job was so that I would be off with my child during the holidays, at no time did anyone tell me that it was a requiremnt of the job to do "compulsory overtime".
The notice of training you have just quoted said "provisional" so I did not make a note of the date and unfortunalty Im not able to change my commitments.
If its of any help Ive already done xxxx training at my last job.


xxxxx


p.s. yes I am looking for another job.

floss2

lill wrote: »

this is my intended reply Ive not sent it yet so feel free to comment

XXXXX, I apologise for any confusion regarding the traing planned for xxx date, however as I am a term-time worker and main carer for my children during school holidays, I have already made arrangements for this date.[STRIKE]Im sorry for any confussion only I was never told that there was any requirement to work "compulsory overtime" during the interview, neither was this part of the advertisment for the job.
I also specificaly stated in the interview that my main reason for applying for the job was so that I would be off with my child during the holidays, at no time did anyone tell me that it was a requiremnt of the job to do "compulsory overtime". [/STRIKE]

The notice of training you have just quoted said "provisional" so I did not make a note of the date and unfortunalty Im not able to change my commitments. I would be grateful if you could provide a list of all training dates, whether firm or provisional, so I can plan these and make alternative child care arrangements.

Furthermore, as I have completed this training with a previous employer on xxxdate, would it be necessary for me to undertake the whole course again, or would a shorter refresher be more suitable?

[STRIKE]If its of any help Ive already done xxxx training at my last job.[/STRIKE]

Maybe a shorter & less emotional version would be better....

lill

Oooooooohhhh wrote: »

Its quite sad when people expect to get jobs with completely whimsical terms

exactly how is this completely whimsical terms? the job was advertised, the description, plus the contract all state term time ONLY no mention of term time + xyz, that is THEIR terms not mine. Also I stated in the interview that the reason I was applying was due to the fact it was TERM TIME.. If they wanted Term time PLUS they should have advertised term time plus and Id have stayed where I was and not taken a drop in wages.

I am being paid only term time, none of the time during the school holidays is noted anywhere as holiday entitlement, holiday pay is added to the yearly pay and paid pro rata.

And my issue is that it IS becoming regular, last summer 8 days, 1 day at least nearly every half term this year and now another 6 for this summer.

lill

floss2 wrote: »

lill wrote: »

this is my intended reply Ive not sent it yet so feel free to comment

XXXXX, I apologise for any confusion regarding the traing planned for xxx date, however as I am a term-time worker and main carer for my children during school holidays, I have already made arrangements for this date.[strike]Im sorry for any confussion only I was never told that there was any requirement to work "compulsory overtime" during the interview, neither was this part of the advertisment for the job.
I also specificaly stated in the interview that my main reason for applying for the job was so that I would be off with my child during the holidays, at no time did anyone tell me that it was a requiremnt of the job to do "compulsory overtime". [/strike]

The notice of training you have just quoted said "provisional" so I did not make a note of the date and unfortunalty Im not able to change my commitments. I would be grateful if you could provide a list of all training dates, whether firm or provisional, so I can plan these and make alternative child care arrangements.

Furthermore, as I have completed this training with a previous employer on xxxdate, would it be necessary for me to undertake the whole course again, or would a shorter refresher be more suitable?

[strike]If its of any help Ive already done xxxx training at my last job.[/strike]

Maybe a shorter & less emotional version would be better....

Sorry but it really gets my back up, as far as Im concerned they have advertised this job under false pretences, the job was advertised TERM TIME only not TERM TIME PLUS, also at no time was there ever any mention of compulsory training.

Oldernotwiser

Normally if you're given a "provisional" date for training (or anything else) you're expected to note it and keep it free. To say that as it was only provisional you just ignored it is plain ridiculous and arguing otherwise will get you nowhere.

lill

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Normally if you're given a "provisional" date for training (or anything else) you're expected to note it and keep it free. To say that as it was only provisional you just ignored it is plain ridiculous and arguing otherwise will get you nowhere.

Why? this was a general e-mail to the whole team some of which are full time, why am I expected to keep MY time free, that's like expecting people to just keep every Sunday free just incase they are asked to come in to work? can I remind you my contract is TERM TIME ONLY and no mention ever of training "events" being compusory

floss2

lill wrote: »

Maybe a shorter & less emotional version would be better....

Sorry but it really gets my back up, as far as Im concerned they have advertised this job under false pretences, the job was advertised TERM TIME only not TERM TIME PLUS, also at no time was there ever any mention of compulsory training.

When I said "less emotional", I actually thought of putting "more relevant, less angry and more professional" - but I thought that would be a little pedantic. Snappy responses to a suggestion of help that has been requested do not always win much in the way of positive assistance.

Have you actually checked your contract & terms & conditions of employment, as you may find that there is a requirement for training - for all staff, whether term time or not, to keep up levels of CPD, skills & knowledge. To be honest, if my employer wanted to give me 10+ days of paid training in my profession every year to keep up my skills & knowledge, I would snatch their hands off.

And pecisely what is it that you do? Is the job performed by other staff one that can not allow release for training during term time? Or are you not affected by a need for updating & to keep your CPD records up to date?

Oldernotwiser

lill wrote: »

Why? this was a general e-mail to the whole team some of which are full time, why am I expected to keep MY time free, that's like expecting people to just keep every Sunday free just incase they are asked to come in to work? can I remind you my contract is TERM TIME ONLY and no mention ever of training "events" being compusory

And can I remind YOU that you asked for people's advice on this?

Regardless of any other aspects of your case, if you've been sent a provisional training date then it was expected that you would keep this free or to bring up any problems with attendance at the time. To tell your employers that you didn't bother to note it will not help your case at all.

People may work Monday to Friday and still be asked to work on a Saturday for a specific reason such as training; it's not at all the same thing as being asked to keep EVERY Sunday free just in case!

I agree with floss2 that most people would leap at 10 days of paid professional training to enable them to improve their skills and develop their career. You're lucky that your employer treats its part time staff equally with its full time staff when it comes to training; if they didn't you'd really have something to complain about.

lill

floss2 wrote: »

When I said "less emotional", I actually thought of putting "more relevant, less angry and more professional" - but I thought that would be a little pedantic. Snappy responses to a suggestion of help that has been requested do not always win much in the way of positive assistance.

Have you actually checked your contract & terms & conditions of employment, as you may find that there is a requirement for training - for all staff, whether term time or not, to keep up levels of CPD, skills & knowledge. To be honest, if my employer wanted to give me 10+ days of paid training in my profession every year to keep up my skills & knowledge, I would snatch their hands off.

And pecisely what is it that you do? Is the job performed by other staff one that can not allow release for training during term time? Or are you not affected by a need for updating & to keep your CPD records up to date?

hey you can put less angry more professional etc. I wont be offended, in the least, I know Im sounding angry but thats because I am, its the "compulsory" thats really winding me up, Iv attended all other training offered to me before now no problem as I thought voluntary.

If I dont make a stand now whats to say this wont be the tip of the iceberg?
I took this job to work term time only if it was not going to be term time only otherwise i would not have changed jobs, what is to stop them having "compulsory trainning" or "events" that takes up nearly if not all none term time?

when i first started this job i was only doing 2 days a week, they offered me 3 days I said yes so long as its on my contract, when i came here to ask if they could make me do the extra day without it being on my contract everyone said NO your contract is for xx days..... how is this any different?

olly300

lill wrote: »

Why? this was a general e-mail to the whole team some of which are full time, why am I expected to keep MY time free, that's like expecting people to just keep every Sunday free just incase they are asked to come in to work? can I remind you my contract is TERM TIME ONLY and no mention ever of training "events" being compusory

I know you are annoyed but legally as the contract that you agreed to doesn't say the words "term time only" then unfortunately it is not. This why they can give you training dates in the school holidays.

Unfortunately the onus was actually on you to get the contract you agreed to state the same as the advert. If you challenge them about the advert they are likely to deny it.

Just send the note in and if asked state the reason i.e. you can't get child care at short notice when everyone else needs child care for that period.

floss2

lill wrote: »

....when i first started this job i was only doing 2 days a week, they offered me 3 days I said yes so long as its on my contract, when i came here to ask if they could make me do the extra day without it being on my contract everyone said NO your contract is for xx days..... how is this any different?

Does your contract state "Term-time"? If not, then you may find that your protestations are worthless.

Does your contract state anything about training & professional development? Do your employers have an obligation to keep the staff up-to-date with new methods / legislation?

Do you want to keep your CPD records & training evidence file up to date? For example, are you a professional with professional membership required for your job?

Or do you only want to work whilst your child/children are at school and have no hassle / no updating / lag behind colleagues / lose professional status & memberships.

You probably won't like this bit - if you don't like the fact that your employer WANTS to train you, then find another job. Most people would adjust to accomodate this extremely worthwhile benefit.