Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

GrandadRob

Got a smaller local supplier coming to inspect on Friday. Be interesting to see what he has to say.
If he agrees with Shell, then that's an end to the tank because nobody (except Flogas) will put any gas into it.

So then it will be plan C (cylinders)

GrandadRob

So with all this fuss over "correctly/safely" sited tanks, or not. Who is the regulatory body overseeing these companies and forcing them to comply now, when clearly, they didn't before ??

HateLPG

GrandadRob wrote: »

So with all this fuss over "correctly/safely" sited tanks, or not. Who is the regulatory body overseeing these companies and forcing them to comply now, when clearly, they didn't before ??

At £4000 a visit, I guess that would be the HSE. From david.T's post of 23rd Feb:

DAVID.T wrote: »

...I think what has changed is gas companies now abide by them!! and HSE who until 2 years ago had no interest whatsoever in LPG have become very interested.

(did you know when HSE visit us we have to pay them for the time they spend working on our company. 1 Visit = £4,000 amazingly, now they can charge us, they come far more often)

GrandadRob

There is a Health and Safety Executive website www.hse.gov.uk which has the facility for asking questions etc.

The issue for me and maybe others is this.....
If you have a bulk tank, which was sited by an LPG supply company, in a location chosen and accepted by themselves, which is now being declared contrary to the regulations, the same regulations in force when it was originally sited. Have that supply company broken the law by supplying the consumer gas over that period of time. I was told recently by a Rep, that tanker drivers are trained in site location of tanks, and will refuse to fill any tank which breaks the regulations. Now how many tanker drivers have filled up my tank over 12 years or so.

I am grateful to HateLPG for his guidance on this topic.

HateLPG

Further to my post of yesterday, in respect of various tank uplift clauses (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41830780&postcount=791), note that some companies say that they will remove the tank and any gas remaining in it. Calor, for example, are explicit in stating that they will not re-imburse the user for any gas remainig in the tank at time of uplift; Flogas make no statement in this respect as far as I can see, but I believe the intent is implicit as they do state that they will remove the tank and any gas in it at the time of uplift.

This raises an interesting point in the case that all gas is fully paid for and/or all outstanding amounts owed are to be paid by the user prior to contract termination: any gas in the tank is yours, and unless they are recovering the tank in the event of non-payment by the user, I suspect that, irrespective of anything that might be written in the contract, they will be on extremely thin ice legally, as they are in effect depriving the user of something that they own and to which they have right and title.

That said, it is one thing to think (or even know) that you are in the right; It is another (and potentially very much more costly) matter entirely to pursue the matter through the small-claims court to recover the money: If you weren't aware, under the small claims process, the defendant has the right to have the case transferred to a court of their choice. So if you live a long way from the company's head office, pursuing a claim can prove a very costly and time-consuming business. To make matters worse, the claims that you can make to recover your out of pocket costs are very limited; No consideration will be given to loss of earnings etc and I believe it is not at all easy even to recover any legal fees that you might incur.

So, if you are considering having your tank removed, make sure that you have used every last valuable fume of LPG before you allow them to take it away.

This is all entirely hypothetical, of course. I think most companies would be more than happy to come to an arrangement that allows you to do that anyway (I can't say all companies - maybe the less scrupulous ones might try to wring every last drop of blood out of you to the bitter end) as it is far less hassle for them to deal with an empty tank than a half full one that will have to be emptied before they can move it! Unless, of course, they always have to send a tanker out to empty it regardless, in which case it makes no odds how much gas is in it.

Oh, and of course (as far as I can see), none of the companies will meet any charges for groundworks or making good the site following removal of the tank.

Maybe David.T could advise on the mechanics and finer points of the uplift procedure?

LittleVermin

Hi,

Some of you may have missed this interview with Henry Cubbon, Mr Flogas.

http://www.lpgasmagazine.co.uk/people/New-Flogas-MD-Henry-Cubbon-Plans-to-Grow-Lpg-Opportunities.html

You (especially you, Rob) will be pleased to read:

In fact, like any of his competitors during early January 2009, the company was working very hard to keep all of its customers supplied and happy.


It's what they do - whether it's January 2009 or any other time!

SD-253

GrandadRob wrote: »

Thanks for that advice. As to the underground tank, I asked the Shell rep that question.
He said that the siting restrictions mentioned with regard to the above ground tank, still applied.
I could have an underground tank, but still in the middle of my driveway, and with a crash barrier protecting the valve outlet at the top.

As to picking on the small guys, it seems reversed. They seem to be enforcing the code on the big guys, whilst some smaller ones slip under the radar. As the one who didn't want to inspect my tank.

Have you tried Energas? They are happy chappies and am not sure they even inspected the tank. Flogas made me take down a fence but told me to wait till they were gone and put it back up again. Silly as the fence was made out of batterns IE full of large gaps to let the gas through

SD-253

HateLPG wrote: »

Further to my post of yesterday, in respect of various tank uplift clauses (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41830780&postcount=791), note that some companies say that they will remove the tank and any gas remaining in it. Calor, for example, are explicit in stating that they will not re-imburse the user for any gas remainig in the tank at time of uplift; Flogas make no statement in this respect as far as I can see, but I believe the intent is implicit as they do state that they will remove the tank and any gas in it at the time of uplift.

This raises an interesting point in the case that all gas is fully paid for and/or all outstanding amounts owed are to be paid by the user prior to contract termination: any gas in the tank is yours, and unless they are recovering the tank in the event of non-payment by the user, I suspect that, irrespective of anything that might be written in the contract, they will be on extremely thin ice legally, as they are in effect depriving the user of something that they own and to which they have right and title.

That said, it is one thing to think (or even know) that you are in the right; It is another (and potentially very much more costly) matter entirely to pursue the matter through the small-claims court to recover the money: If you weren't aware, under the small claims process, the defendant has the right to have the case transferred to a court of their choice. So if you live a long way from the company's head office, pursuing a claim can prove a very costly and time-consuming business. To make matters worse, the claims that you can make to recover your out of pocket costs are very limited; No consideration will be given to loss of earnings etc and I believe it is not at all easy even to recover any legal fees that you might incur.

So, if you are considering having your tank removed, make sure that you have used every last valuable fume of LPG before you allow them to take it away.

This is all entirely hypothetical, of course. I think most companies would be more than happy to come to an arrangement that allows you to do that anyway (I can't say all companies - maybe the less scrupulous ones might try to wring every last drop of blood out of you to the bitter end) as it is far less hassle for them to deal with an empty tank than a half full one that will have to be emptied before they can move it! Unless, of course, they always have to send a tanker out to empty it regardless, in which case it makes no odds how much gas is in it.

Oh, and of course (as far as I can see), none of the companies will meet any charges for groundworks or making good the site following removal of the tank.

Maybe David.T could advise on the mechanics and finer points of the uplift procedure?

Energas said they would remove the tank if they did not like it but take out gas first and then put tank to oneside. Note I do not believe for one minute that they could/would take the tank away with gas in it. Furthermore I thought they couldn't take it away they had to sell it to new company???????

SD-253

Originally Posted by x-x
I moved from Flogas to Shell over a year ago at 33p/l and it has gone up over the year to 49p/l. The people from Shell were extremely friendly and I do not regret making the move. Shell are definitely worth giving a try, I was very surprised to find a big company like Shell offering me the best deal.

Don't stay with Flogas

DAVID.T wrote: »

Your price increased by 48% in 12 months and you feel they gave you a good deal?

Pay no intentions to him (DAVID.T) X-X nowt wrong with that price. Although always look for a better deal at the end of the contract but I bet the vast majority of LPG users would be very happy with that price VERY.

SD-253

GrandadRob wrote: »

Still waiting for a site visit from Shell. But just as if to give me a happy send off......... Those lovely people at Flogas have sent me a letter today, informing me of an EIGHT PENCE price hike. That would take my price to 76p per litre. But if I place an order before March 12th, I can get a top up at the one-off, bargain, never to be repeated, price of 68 ppl............WOW ! Now, where did I put that phone..................:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I saw the price you are paying for LPG. The word robbers comes to mind When I think of the way they talked to me on the phone when I was still in conract with over a year to go. When they were informed I was moving LPG suppliers they rung me and asked what my new price was as they might be able to offer a better price, I said I would rather have cancer than have anything more to do with them and hung up. They never rang me back????????