Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

LittleVermin

HateLPG wrote: »

Sharks!!!!

That's GOT to be a deal breaker in ANYONE'S book!

yes, and Calor would probably even forget that meagre bit of small print if it suited them!



And that's why we are asking everyone to add their support (i.e. thanks) to http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477 !

Den2Mark

Back in post #348 I copied my letter to my MP, Tessa Munt.

She has just replied, with a couple of paras of general support saying the energy market must become more transparent, and showing she had read and taken in my letter (basically I was saying include LPG in the compulsory disclosure of the best price on statements: also I suggested separating contractually the tank rental and LPG delivery).

In the final para she says "I have written to the Rt Hon Chris Huhne MP, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change including your letter along with my own endorsement. I will keep you updated on his reply."

When I hear any more I'll post it here.

GrandadRob

Den2Mark, don't get too excited. My MP passed my recent letter to the same department. I got a letter from Ian Hendry, Minister for Climate Change and Energy.............He took three pages to tell me a load of irrelevant stuff about how difficult life was for suppliers of LPG, and all about sale of tanks etc from one company to another. All of which we know. The only part that referred to consumers was about contacting OFT about breaches of the rules. I have done that too to no effect. Just try to get your MP to get the LPG suppliers onto the new price transparency regulations coming into play for other energy suppliers. I am afraid that they still don't get the point.
Keep writing back, if you become a nuisance, they might just act.

HateLPG

GrandadRob wrote: »

I got a letter from Ian Hendry, Minister for Climate Change and Energy.............He took three pages to tell me a load of irrelevant stuff about how difficult life was for suppliers of LPG, and all about sale of tanks etc from one company to another. All of which we know.

Which is an excellent opportunity to write back to him, now that you know what he (read: his department) does (read: doesn't) know, and put him right on the matter.

If you don't like the offer you get from your LPG company, you go back to them and tell them, and you switch suppliers if you get no satisfaction. Sadly, when it comes to Government, we are unlikely to get a chance to change supplier for a couple of years, so I think it's time to start bulk-buying postage stamps.

dunc72

I've recently ,moved into a house supplied with LPG and I cannot believe how these companies are allowed to behave.

Our former house owner was in a contract with Carvers and I have contacted LPG compare for help with finding a new supplier. The first one he found would not take our business as 'one of the senior mamagers used to work for Carvers, and din't want to upset them'.

Extra fuel offered 42.5ppl fixewd for 12 months, but have now increased this to 45ppl and I have been informed today that although they are offering a fixed deal, they can change at any time. What sort of contract is that!

Are these contracts enforceable, it seems to me that this industry is anti-competitive and operating like a cartel. Is there a governing body you can complain to?

LittleVermin

dunc72 wrote: »

I've recently ,moved into a house supplied with LPG and I cannot believe how these companies are allowed to behave.

Our former house owner was in a contract with Carvers and I have contacted LPG compare for help with finding a new supplier. The first one he found would not take our business as 'one of the senior mamagers used to work for Carvers, and din't want to upset them'.

Extra fuel offered 42.5ppl fixewd for 12 months, but have now increased this to 45ppl and I have been informed today that although they are offering a fixed deal, they can change at any time. What sort of contract is that!

Are these contracts enforceable, it seems to me that this industry is anti-competitive and operating like a cartel. Is there a governing body you can complain to?

1.

A contract is a contract is a contract ... I assume it was signed and dated by both parties?

In which case this is relevant (cut and pasted from #380):

Section 14 of OFT's revised guidance http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/mon...estic-bulk.pdf :

14. Who do I complain to if I have a disagreement with my supplier?

[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]If you feel that your supplier has pressured or misinformed you to get you to sign a contract, has overcharged you or been unfair in some way then you should call [/FONT]
[/FONT]

Consumer Direct [FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]on 08454 04 05 06 or see their website: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]If you have a dispute with your supplier, you can seek advice from [/FONT][/FONT]
Citizens Advice Bureau[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]. Contact details can be found on its website at: www.citizensadvice.org.uk. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]If you have a complaint about a possible breach of either of the Orders or are uncertain about how they might apply to your situation, you should contact the OFT Enquiries and Reporting Centre on 08457 22 44 99, or by e mail at enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk. Please note that OFT cannot provide advice or assistance to individual consumers or traders. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]Office of Fair Trading [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]September 2010 [/FONT]

2. You might also visit Trading Standards if they are refusing to honour a valid contract.

3. lpgcompare is run by Jon Rose, who used to advertise - sorry, 'post' without revealing his business - on the LPG threads. You can go to the UKLPG website and put in your postcode in http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/ and find your own potential suppliers. Cut out the middleman - and his problems with personalities.

And, please, keep us all posted!

Good luck!

[/FONT]

HateLPG

dunc72 wrote: »

Are these contracts enforceable, it seems to me that this industry is anti-competitive and operating like a cartel. Is there a governing body you can complain to?

Hi dunc72 - welcome to the Crazy World of LPG!!!

Unfortunately, you are not wide of the mark! There WAS a competition commission ruling a couple of years back now, but (in my opinion) that has only served to make matters worse!

As someone new to this whole LPG lark, I would strongly recommend that you read this thread pretty much from start to finish - there's a LOT of good advice and shared experiences and not too much noise.

Read and understand your contract CAREFULLY. There is a lot buried in the small print that certain suppliers seem to think is "optional", when it is not: from personal experience and from conversations with others, the contract actually can under certain circumstances, work in your favour when prices shoot up (plenty of examples in this thread!)!

As you are obviously immediately concerned with the price you are paying here and now, I suggest you have a look at LittleVermin's recent post on this - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39104984&postcount=413 - which will get you pointed in the right direction, and also at Windward's csv version of my earlier post of prices that people are currently paying (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=38832156&postcount=368). I would also suggest that you have a look at the Competition Commission site (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/) particularly the Notice of making of domestic Order (13/10/08) and the LPG FAQs for customers to get a picture of what the suppliers may and may not do!

In terms of what you can do to challenge things, I'm afraid your options are limited; The industry doesn't fall under the purview of any ombudsman or regulator as such - Consumer Focus (http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/) are supposed to be fighting for the consumer's interests in this area, but from my experience of trying to deal with them, I would say they have little or no interest either in the LPG market or in doing anything about it; If you have a specific complaint in respect of your supplier, then you should address this to Consumer Direct (http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/) but I am not aware of anyone having had any satisfaction with taking this route either

As you will see from reading this thread in its entirety, many contributors have written to their MPs and also to the ministers in question (Originally I believe that was Charles Hendry, but from recent posts, it seems that this now falls under Chris Huhne's remit), and in some cases also to Vince Cable (as Secretary of State for Business).

One other thing you could do immediately would be to visit Voisin's "Moneyfesto" on this site (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477) and to lend weight to it by "thanking" his post.

I wish you luck with your LPG - please join in and contribute your experiences - this thread is starting to get up quite a useful head of steam and hopefully with enough momentum and ideas, we will all benefit in the long term

SD-253

DrMekon wrote: »

Just found this thread after searching for info online for about a year! Our CH and water is heated by LPG, but we've got 4 x 47kg cylinders rather than a bulk tank. We've been with Calor, and they've been sending us "price is going up" letters. We barely use a cylinder for 6 months of a year, so when I rang up and found they wanted £120 for 2 x 47kg, I rang flogas who offered the same for £93, but couldn't deliver quickly. I rang Calor back and they immediately matched it without question! I suspect I need to get a bulk tank installed if I am going to save any money. Can anyone point me to advice on getting a good installation / rental deal?

Don't know where you live but try Enegas 07876658259 Definnatly do Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Phone number salesman

LittleVermin

brandeberryj wrote: »

mine has no price clause in the contract but this is actualy illegal as all contracts are now required by law to be fair. This is why the old variable rate mortgage were deemed illegal and everyone had to have a writen contract. Now that does not mean prices cannot rise by huge amounts ie even double but it has to be fair ie if they gave you a contract which was tied to the wholesale price then it could go up with it ie infinity (i know over the top statement but you get the gist)

(my bold)

Can you tell us more, please?

Is this a route people could use if they know someone else is paying far less than them?

SD-253

tumuli wrote: »

If it makes anyone feel better (reading this thread makes me feel like a mug anyway, so why not), I got a letter from BP this morning with a 9.5ppl hike, on top of last month's 5.5ppl (I think) hike.

That makes our current ppl ... wait for it... 68.95

Do I win a prize for that?

Was thinking of switching to Calor, but really not sure after reading this thread. They offered me (this morning) 43ppl, 16.9ddp standing charge, £100 gas credit with a 2 year contract (no more than 3.5ppl increase in 3 months). We have an above ground tank. Still sounds like we're being ripped off from what others here are paying.

Any thoughts?

I am with Energas paying 37p a litre have been for a year although they told me that prices would have to go up about 2 months ago but never followed it through. The standing charge is actaul gas tank rental and the standard rental price is £60 a year. The latter is very reasonable in my opinion. Now when I last checked the 37p a litre was the same price as oil at 54p (the price my neighbour paid that week). Gas gives you 7.11kw while oil gives you 10.35 kw so gas has to be 30% cheaper to be the same price as oil which it was. This is of course based ON boilers being 100% efficent which obviously there not. I am also unsure about just how efficent gas biolers are relative to oil. PS this site will supply you with all the firms which will deliver to your post code. I think it is supplied by the competition authority http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/search.php