Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

D4rkS4v4nt

Another update from me...

So I enquired with Flogas about renewal rates on 2nd October and received a reply on the 6th saying they would not discuss this with me until closer to my end of contract (end of November). Two days later on the 8th October I get an email from LPG Save offering to secure me a new renewal offer

I think it is safe to say that LPG Save / Flogas are essentially one and the same, considering they only ever appear to offer renewals with Flogas and no other supplier.

Also I think it is safe to say that perhaps either some of the posters on here belong to one of these companies or that they are reading everything that is written.

Anyway down to the offer, interestingly having some forum posters above suggesting everyone should go with 24 month "fixed" contracts I receiver an offer for such a contract from LPG Save -

33.5ppl (+VAT) "fixed" for 24 months

However if you read the small print in the terms and conditions this appears to be far far worse than the normal contracts where it is fixed for 12 months and capped during the 2nd year -

Section 8.4 - We will apply a cap of 12 pence per litre (excluding VAT - as the VAT rate may be varied by the government) on our price increase in any twelve month period. If our price increases more than 12 pence per litre (excluding VAT) in any twelve month period then you will be netitled to terminate this Supply Agreement by giving us 42 days written notice ("Termination Notice") - this Termination Notice has to be given to us by you within 14 days of when we have told you about the price increase.

So essentially I believe this could happen if section 8.4 does indeed apply -

Year 1 - starting price 33.5ppl, price increase by 12ppl = 45.5ppl

Year 2 - 45ppl, price increase by 12ppl = 57ppl!!!!

I've emailed LPG Save querying section 8.4 of the contract as this is much much worse than a traditional 12 month fix in my opinion and looks very very dodgy.

Mister_G

Welshbiker said:

So this must be a common situation ... Coming out of a Contract with Flogas, as they stuffed me in the second year, only to find that getting prices from Calor, Avanti, & Callow, all meant a short customer survey on the tank siting  & condition.  Bottom line is no new supplier can fill, as the tank site is less then 3 mtrs from a boundary wall.   Regulations, regulations, yeah I heard it all before.
Do I have to go back to Flogas, cap in hand, and accept whatever price they charge, as they are now the only company legally allowed to fill the tank ?
And if I insist that as it does not meet current regs, then it MUST be UNSAFE, and I want it replaced ... how far does that get me?  Logic would dictate its either safe, or not... so it can either be filled by anyone, or nobody !
Perhaps the change to oil is nigh 
Anyone with a similar experience that worked in their favour ?

Yes.  I was with Calor and the revised regulations at the time stated that the tank could not be under a power line, which mine was (11kV).  As a result of this, no other supplier would take on the tank.

I pointed this out to Calor and said that I would get the HSE involved if the situation was not rectified.  They put a new tank in a safe location and moled in about 30m of new pipework - all at their expense.  I had to sign up for a new two year contract at not very favourable terms.

However, after the first year they tried putting the price up by 10ppl, which broke the contract.  I therefore jumped ship and went to a small local independent.  I've been with them for the past 10 years and currently pay 33ppl.

JerryW

On the subject of tank compliance: the tank is (usually) the property of the lpg supplier and you pay rent. This gives them a legally enforceable duty to ensure that it meets current regulations.

When I tried to move supplier about 10 years ago I had a really good quote - (from Shell, which I think is now Avanti?), subject to survey. Shell sent an engineer along who informed me that in his opinion, it was the least compliant tank he had ever seen! So I told the existing supplier about the Shell quote, which they reluctantly matched. Once the contract was signed, I asked them to check that the tank was compliant and confirm it to me in writing. They then had to replace the tank, to put the new one in a new location, and mole about 20m of new pipework from it to the house. All at no charge except that I had to pay a local handyman to install a suitable concrete base for the tank. This sort of work is something that does need to be borne in mind when complaining about prices generally.

Also, I never recommend acquiring ownership of a tank yourself. By law, it needs professional inspection at regular intervals. And if you ever did want to obtain gas from a major supplier in future, you would have to ensure it was compliant before they would fill it and you would have to pay for andy required work. And as we have seen, regulations jdo change!

JerryW

On the subject of Flogas contracts: the letter I had from LPG Save, which was stapled to the contract, specifically stated that the 24 month fix superseded clauses 8.3 and 8.4. However to make doubly sure I deleted both those clauses when I signed and returned the contract. If they query or reject it I will just go elsewhere but given the letter, it is hard to see how they could.

I am pretty sure that LPG Save and Flogas have a very cosy relationship. They claim to compare all suppliers but I have never seen them use any other but Flogas. So long as you are prepared to use Flogas I don't see what difference it makes.

Don't forget that any major supplier can put up the price whenever they want, whatever the contract says. The worst that can happen is that you can point out the contract has been breached and then go elsewhere. So long as the majority don't bother to do that, they still gain. Precious few of us will have the altogether admirable determination that mcmullenk above had, to take them to court. Though if it happens to me, I certainly will.

JerryW

On the subject of suppliers reading this forum: well, of course they do. It is a public forum and they are fully entitled. Personally, I want them to because if reading the stuff on here does not make them feel guilty about the way some of them treat their customers, they must have absolutely no conscience whatsoever.

You should be careful not to disclose too much in the way of personal information, and remain polite and non-libellous at all times, but that should apply to all forums anywhere.

So I am happy to refer to businesses such as Calor or Flogas or even LPG Save, but I would not name individual members of staff at all ever. Unless you want to compliment them and they have agreed, I suppose. I've never had cause, though I have come close when dealing with Woldlink :-)

Andrew1066

More price details

Calor

 34 PPL fixed for 12 months with a 3.5 p cap in year 2. The standing charge for the tank would be 25.13 pence per day, roughly around £92 a year including VAT.

Avanti 

34 pence per litre fixed for the first 12 months (+5% VAT)

In the 2nd 12 months of the agreement your price will be reflective of the LPG market, however we’d like to reassure you that there is a cap on operational increases. Your price cannot increase by more than 3 pence in any given 6-month period for operational costs

Standing charge of £110/year (+5% VAT) to cover use of the Underground tank, maintenance and our 24/7 emergency service

J_B

Welshbiker said:

My comments in bold ...

Do I have to go back to Flogas, cap in hand, and accept whatever price they charge, as they are now the only company legally allowed to fill the tank ?

Read JerryW's post about 'tank compliance'

Get the best price you can, then go back to Flogas and tell them to match it, or you will leave (and hope they don't know that the tank isn't compliant!!!)

Logic would dictate its either safe, or not... so it can either be filled by anyone, or nobody !

Logic and LPG in the same sentence ... hmmm!

The_Hornet

Well I've just had a letter from the nice people at Flogas telling me that the fixed price year of my 2 year contract is coming to an end and the price will be going up. I'd negotiated a maximum 5p cap in year 2 but to my surprise the cost is going up from 35p/l to 38.5p. Surely it's unheard of for Flogas to apply a smaller increase than they can get away with!

collectors

I just got a 5p increase "14%"  from this useless Flogas company, which means at least a £100 increase on my next fill up.
I have another month to my next hike in price, so will fill up on the old price & be frugal on the gas next year & swap companies. 

JerryW

collectors said:

I just got a 5p increase "14%"  from this useless Flogas company, which means at least a £100 increase on my next fill up. I have another month to my next hike in price, so will fill up on the old price & be frugal on the gas next year & swap companies. 

  ... And ask for a two year fix next time! In which case you can stay with Flogas if they are competitive.

All the companies I approached this time agreed to a two year fix, when pressed. I would like to see it become universal because from the customer's viewpoint it makes life simpler, and removes a lot of worry and stress