Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

offthehook

Mister_G wrote: »

Surely if the price is fixed for the first 12 months then there shouldn't be any increase.

In the second 12 months it looks like it could initially go up to 36.5p (months 12-18) and then up to 40p (months 18-24) after a further 6 months. That's the worst case scenario - in my opinion!

That’s a very reasonable interpretation (since it coincides with my own!).
Any other possible/reasonable/legal interpretations?

JerryW

offthehook wrote: »

That’s a very reasonable interpretation (since it coincides with my own!).
Any other possible/reasonable/legal interpretations?

Yes! In year one, your cost per litre should not increase. But in year two all bets will be off since somewhere in your contract, if you read it carefully, will be a clause allowing the price to increase by any amount as long as it is in line with market prices. Usually it quotes a specific index for comparison. The clause will specifically say that it is not bound by the 3.5p cap.. My contract has such a get-out and I suspect they all do. If you scroll back a page or two here there is more discussion on this point.

offthehook

JerryW wrote: »

Yes! In year one, your cost per litre should not increase. But in year two all bets will be off since somewhere in your contract, if you read it carefully, will be a clause allowing the price to increase by any amount as long as it is in line with market prices. Usually it quotes a specific index for comparison. The clause will specifically say that it is not bound by the 3.5p cap.. My contract has such a get-out and I suspect they all do. If you scroll back a page or two here there is more discussion on this point.

The general terms and conditions are surprisingly thin re pricing :
- “bulk lpg shall be sold at the company’s currently monthly variable price and in exceptional circumstances may include a surcharge”.
- “at the end of any promotional period, your lpg price will automatically revert to a monthly variable rate.”

Presuming no “exceptional circumstances” are cited (and evidenced), should my reasonable expectation on the basis of the quoted terms be 36.5p max after the end of the first 12 months and 40p max after 18 months?

JerryW

My (Avanti) contract says:

"6.4 ... we may increase the current Gas price (as shown
on the front page);
(a) where the cost of supplying the Gas increases due to an underlying increase in the wholesale cost of Gas, by an amount that reflects this increase; and/or
(b) by a maximum of 3 pence per litre in any given 6 month period to take
account of increases in other costs (for example, transportation), changes in
your consumption of Gas and any other factors which we consider relevant.
Increases under Clause 6.4(a) will be referenced to the cost to us of
purchasing propane on the LPG market and evidenced by relevant LPG
indexes (including taking into account exchange rate issues). For the
avoidance of doubt, no limit shall apply to any increase under Clause 6.4(a)."

Nothing like that in yours, offthehook? Who is your contract with?

offthehook

I have provided every single piece of price-related data in my contract.

I was very surprised that, at the end of my first year, I received notification that my price was increasing from 33ppl to 40ppl.
Upon contacting the supplier and mentioning the price cap of 3.5p, I was informed that the cap had indeed been applied but had been “winding up in the background” during the original fixed period.
I commented that was nothing like my understanding of the terms that had been agreed and was then informed that no other customer had any issues with this particular interpretation of the terms.....

I am now going down the complaint route, on the basis that the pricing terms were not transparent and unambiguous. Any advice on further avenues when/if my complaint is fobbed off?

The supplier is Extrafuel.

JerryW

Extrafuel are not a bad company .. clearly they have much to learn when it comes to writing contracts, compared to the big boys; but that is no bad thing.
The concept that everything is fixed for 12 months, except that some things are more fixed than others, is not new and has to be resisted wherever possible. This "winding up in the background" idea is totally wrong and should be rejected out of hand. Fixed is fixed. What it means is that at the end of the 12 months, you are where you were at the beginning, no matter what the market did. And what other customers may think is also completely irrelevant. There is a large minority of lpg users out there who sadly, seem to do whatever they are told, without complaint.
As to what to do next that is up to you but I would not take this lying down. You could
- cancel any direct debit arrangement you may have, coupled with a message saying you are happy to pay reasonable costs but will not give them an open book as long as they are making unreasonable demands
- give them notice that in your opinion they have breached their contract and you want confirmation that you can go elsewhere

Never forget you are paying them, not them you, and without you, they are sunk .. really it depends on how much fuss you want to enjoy making, how much time you have to spare, whether you have a mate who is a solicitor and can write on headed notepaper on your behalf .. how aggrieved you actually feel .. but do think of is as a hobby and get as much mileage out of it as you can. And DO let us know how you get on.

Good luck and give them a hard time

bobmac62

Woldlink pricing May 2019

Price confirmed at 30.92ppl + 5%VAT. A small reduction vs April.

Mister_G

JerryW wrote: »

Extrafuel are not a bad company .. clearly they have much to learn when it comes to writing contracts, compared to the big boys; but that is no bad thing.
The concept that everything is fixed for 12 months, except that some things are more fixed than others, is not new and has to be resisted wherever possible. This "winding up in the background" idea is totally wrong and should be rejected out of hand. Fixed is fixed. What it means is that at the end of the 12 months, you are where you were at the beginning, no matter what the market did. And what other customers may think is also completely irrelevant. There is a large minority of lpg users out there who sadly, seem to do whatever they are told, without complaint.
As to what to do next that is up to you but I would not take this lying down. You could
- cancel any direct debit arrangement you may have, coupled with a message saying you are happy to pay reasonable costs but will not give them an open book as long as they are making unreasonable demands
- give them notice that in your opinion they have breached their contract and you want confirmation that you can go elsewhere

Never forget you are paying them, not them you, and without you, they are sunk .. really it depends on how much fuss you want to enjoy making, how much time you have to spare, whether you have a mate who is a solicitor and can write on headed notepaper on your behalf .. how aggrieved you actually feel .. but do think of is as a hobby and get as much mileage out of it as you can. And DO let us know how you get on.

Good luck and give them a hard time

Totally agree. Sadly the LPG sector does not benefit from a regulator so all suppliers will try it on. It's high time the Government stepped in.

I'm fortunate that my local independent is still charging 30ppl +VAT and has done for the past 4 years.

JerryW

Mister_G wrote: »

Totally agree. Sadly the LPG sector does not benefit from a regulator so all suppliers will try it on. It's high time the Government stepped in...
.

There isn't an LPG regulator but there is an Ombudsman. It is funded by the industry itself and thus suspect - but claims it is independent. Although a couple of posters here say they have approached/will approach it, they have never fed back how they got on.

bobmac62

]Good news, Woldlink have advised June pricing at 27.89ppl + 5% VAT for those on monthly pricing schedule. This is down over 3ppl from May level. This is in stark contrast to the petrol/diesel pricing levels recently.