Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

dochemic

have got one offer of 29p for 12 months and a 4p cap on the second year increase from Premier.. Maintenance is on top but even so it's quite a reduction!

Graeme_S

Like you the 2 year argument is annoying. I was told I should check the market and then they would try to beat the price!

I obtained £0.28p per Lt and £150 free gas with a fix if the price rises at the end of year one and the right to renegotiate after 12 months. Country wide response was to offer £0.30p per lt and a £200 of free gas and to re price my last order. Looking at in the round I could be about £40-50 quid better off if I stayed.

So why move you ask? Countrywide have done this to me before, where I have gone and found better pricing and they have matched. They won't be proactive unless I tell them, they will keep milking me charging the £0.42p a lt until I point it out and then only match. Sorry that is not good enough customer care for me.

If they had written to me, ahead of time and said "hey we can offer you £0.30 a lt to stay". I would have. Yes it is a lot less of an offer but a £0.12 saving on a lt over 25% I would have signed no problem it would have been easy. That they made me do the work was enough to make me go the whole hog and change and changing is really easy nowadays. The new supplier does it all comes out inspects the vessel not a bad thing and buys it from the previous supplier and off you go.

bobmac62

The February price for LPG from Woldlink has been advised at 21.36ppl +5%VAT
Every little helps!

Poundnote

Every 1p reduction is worth £15.75 inc vat on a 1500 Litre delivery - money staying in the bank!

LittleVermin

Letter from 'AD', an annoyed FLOGAS customer who'd been ripped off - "I was paying 69p a litre, when the market rate is 28p a litre" - published in the Guardian's 'Consumer Champions' in the 'money' section on Saturday and now on-line.

Guardian Money: "We asked Flogas for an explanation and were told you were not on a fixed deal, making the price premium you were charged all the more worrying. Flogas was reticent when discussing the case but told Money it is "always listening to customers and looking for a fair outcome."" The upshot is that the annoyed customer - who was first offered 500l of gas as compensation and retorted "it can shove that" - has now been satisfied ....but refuses to tell the Guardian how much he got as compensation. Guardian: "We are given to believe that AD has been repaid a significant sum, although he became rather tongue-tied when asked what it was. Happy for us to let {sic} him sort out his problem, he was less inclined to say how much, even though it might help others."

The Guardian has no paywall - but you have to sign in to comment. PLEASE use this opportunity to get the LPG price rip-off publicised. Here's the link: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/feb/29/flogas-lpg-price-cuts

Or you can email [EMAIL="consumer.champions@theguardian.com"]consumer.champions@theguardian.com[/EMAIL]

Poundnote

It is unfair to put Calor in the same heading as Flogas. As I have said before I have always had courteous dealings with Calor - Caveat Emptor

LittleVermin

Poundnote wrote: »

It is unfair to put Calor in the same heading as Flogas. As I have said before I have always had courteous dealings with Calor - Caveat Emptor

Very happy for you! Flogas has a poor reputation for customer service, Calor a good one - as you indicate from your personal experience.

But I suggest you read the thread ...if you've the patience! .... and you'll find plenty of posts which mention Calor charging prices way above the 'market' rate (as defined by the prices the independents charge who post prices on-line). THAT is precisely why HateLPG goes to the trouble of posting monthly graphs. The graphs started several years back when we got hold of the wholesale prices - historic ones and even the daily ones [Platts] and monthly ones [ANSI - Argus North Sea Index]. At one stage a firm in China was posting Platts on-line, but that stopped, then we found Bloomberg posts then they went behind a paywall, then.... There are several very helpful people about - even a former trader! :T

When you renew if you haggle Calor will always (or nearly always!) beat the best offer you've had from an independent . They want to keep their volume up - and competition down: even after the Competition Commission inquiry into 'Domestic bulk liquefied petroleum gas' from 2004-06 independents still only have 11% of the market. Calor can offer these good initial prices to hagglers because they know they have the massive cushion of many customers paying excessive prices.

If you want to read about Calor refunding nearly £1000 to a customer they overcharged: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=33132999&postcount=102

I could put links to many posts about Calor's excessive prices for customers - and of course we only hear from over-charged Calor customers who find this forum! I could put links ...but I have work to do!

Poundnote

Like I said - Caveat Emptor from a Calor customer of 17 years standing.

LittleVermin

Reviews on Trustpilot

Calor: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.calor.co.uk

Flogas: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.flogas.co.uk

Calor got 2/10 averaged over 18 reviews. Flogas got 3.9/10 from 73 reviews. You award 1-5 stars (zero is impossible!)....so the minimum out of 10 is 2. Avantigas has only had 4 reviews on Trustpilot so far.

......though how trustworthy is Trustpilot? I have learnt it has some strange methods. Please see this post about Fischer Future Heat and Trustpilot.
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LittleVermin

A year ago I mentioned that the FAQs published by the Competition Commission and later by the Office for Fair Trading had been republished, in modified form, by the Competition & Markets Authority. Probably worth mentioning again for new forum users. Thirteen pages - enjoy! And towards the end read why LPG companies are not made to publish their prices - unlike the mains gas and electricity suppliers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/399517/LPG_FAQs.pdf

You may want particularly to read section 17 (p11-12) about transparent prices...and to whet your appetite here's the last part:

In relation to supply of LPG to single bulk tanks, there has been an increase in switching between suppliers from around 0.5% at the time of the CC’s report in 2006 to 4.0% in 2013/14. This indicates that the Order has had some success in removing the unilateral power suppliers enjoyed over their customers. Thus, in the CC’s analysis, the danger of collusion might at least be maintained, or enhanced if, say, suppliers were required to publish their current LPG prices.

We have no power to amend the Order to require an increased level of price transparency. This is because to do so would go further than the CC deemed necessary to deal with the adverse effects on competition found in the course of its 2004 to 2006 inquiry.

Theoretically, we could make another market investigation reference seeking an investigation of this issue but, given the relative success of the Order and the general level of competition in the market, it would be very hard to argue in favour of such a course of action. Moreover, we have limited resources and must prioritise our work. The CMA has a duty to consider whether the issue raised falls within its administrative priorities in accordance with its prioritisation principles. We considered this issue against our prioritisation principles and do not consider it appropriate to use our resources to make further enquiries into this matter.

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