Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

bobhawke

HateLPG wrote: »

Having directly asked questions about this a few weeks ago, and been fobbed of with a load of (frankly) twaddle, we now hear:

From: stockmarketwire.com

So, now that comments have been "invited", it is perhaps time to ensure that appropriate comments are forthcoming.

I don't know who is dealing with comments on this matter at the OFT, but in the first instance, I'm sure Sharon Dias (Sharon.Dias@oft.gsi.gov.uk) will be able to help, or at least advise who is the correct contact.

Soon as I heard about the acquisition I sent a letter off to the OFT. I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the letter in front of me but they said they can only deal with a matter if it comes from another government agency so they forwarded my letter to the relevant agencies who will hopefully get the OFT to do something about it.

stubla11

As LPG is half the calorific value of oil does this mean litre for litre you get half the heating value from LPG? Thus if LPG is now the same price as oil we are paying twice as much. At the current price of LPG it may be worth converting. I have switched suppliers but with a few months of switching the price went up. I am sick of being messed about by LPG suppliers and am going to convert to oil. At least you can ring around for the best price and not be held to ransom.

LittleVermin

Further to the posts of HateLPG and bobhawke, the relevant page on the Office for Fair Trading website is

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/Mergers_Cases/2012/Flogas

and the person to write to is Tom Heideman:

Please send written representations about any competition or public interest issues to:
Tom Heideman
Office of Fair Trading
Fleetbank House
2-6 Salisbury Square
London EC4Y 8JX
Email: [EMAIL="%20tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]tom.heideman@oft.gsi.gov.uk [/EMAIL]
Fax: 020 7211 8916

to arrive by 1 November 2012.


Relevant are statements in the Competition Commission report on the Domestic Bulk LPG market, which came into effect in 2009, which refer to the number of possible independent suppliers bulk LPG users have. I'll try to find the relevant clauses! ...but it'll be next week so here's the link for all the docs if anyone has time right now to search:
http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/our-work/directory-of-all-inquiries/domestic-bulk-liquefied-petroleum-gas .

LittleVermin

....and here's the website: http://www.macgas.co.uk/index.html

This is posted just in case anyone has not realised that BP Gas has changed its name and become yet another DCC company. Flogas is a DCC company. Lots of the (apparently independent) heating oil suppliers are DCC companies - they were independent once but kept their name when DCC took them over.

The head office of MacGas is in Avonmouth, outside Bristol and goes by the name of
GB LPG Ltd

....so that's another name to watch out for! The MacGas customer service HQ is in Glasgow.

chubbs85240

Hello again.

I am still deciding on what to do, but was wondering what the thoughts on here were.

So far the Jgas option ooks the best at 46ppl +VAT (and I will ask them about the 42PPL )

however, I spoke to a small local supplier called Gaulds Gas, who are based in a neighbouring town.

They are a small family run business and dont ask for any contracts or anything, they just offer a good local friendly service and hope that is enough to keep clients on board - they do however charge 52,9 ppl +VAT

I like the sound of them and the idea of dealing locally, but the price is not the best.

She did however tell me that the cheapest place out there is Avantigas, she told me that they can not even buy it bulk (8 tons at a time) as cheap as they sell it direct.

I have tried contacting Avantigas twice for a quote and as yet have not heard back from their local rep

so question is, are Avantigas worth dealing with, if they come in cheapest, bearing in mind the customer service thus far has been abysmal

thanks

Going2getanotherAga

stubla11 wrote: »

As LPG is half the calorific value of oil does this mean litre for litre you get half the heating value from LPG? Thus if LPG is now the same price as oil we are paying twice as much. At the current price of LPG it may be worth converting. I have switched suppliers but with a few months of switching the price went up. I am sick of being messed about by LPG suppliers and am going to convert to oil. At least you can ring around for the best price and not be held to ransom.

I had this conversation the other month with my oil boiler service agent..... he seems to think the same as what you just asked!.
Saying that you're effectively burning twice as much fuel as oil to achieve the same output, & advising me not to switch if it's a case of trying to save money.

frankie

I can understand your frustration with the lpg market. However, you do need to factor in the conversion costs of switching to oil. Consider the payback time for you to even break even.

This data may also be of use:

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/energy_comparison_data/september_2012

It may guide you in considering your costs.

chubbs85240

Going2getanotherAga wrote: »

I had this conversation the other month with my oil boiler service agent..... he seems to think the same as what you just asked!.
Saying that you're effectively burning twice as much fuel as oil to achieve the same output, & advising me not to switch if it's a case of trying to save money.

My understanding is that Oil burns at 1.5 density of LPG

so every 1.5ltrs of gas = 1Ltr of Oil

I had a conversation about this with a oil & gas expert. (he told me to change to oil btw!)

My take on this is that if the price of gas = 1.5 times less than Oil, then your gas will be more efficient

you also would then need to look at the difference in the change over - which I believe will cost around £2,000-£2,500 for the boiler and around £1,000 for the Tank

I would think if you needed to replace your boiler anyway, it may be worth doing long term, however, to change just for the sake of it, would take many years (at current prices) to get your money back (especially if you shop around and get around 45-50 ppl)

taunton24

Hello everybody! Just looking for a bit of advice/general thoughts on my LPG situation. We moved into a 3 bed cottage with LPG central heating back in June and the tank had been left at 65% full. It is now 50%. We have had a letter from Flo Gas who own the tank offering us 22 pence per day standing charge and 46 pence + Vat per litre of gas. However this said that all prices are variable! Does this mean that they are likely to charge a lot more than 46 pence??!! Also I had heard some poor reports regarding Flo Gas so had countrywide come out to see what deals they could do, they told me I would have to get the tank moved away from the wall, change pipework etc so this was prohibitively expensive, does this mean I am more than likely to have to stick with Flo Gas??
Sorry for rambling, any thoughts gratefully recieved!

ilikecookies

taunton24 wrote: »

Hello everybody! Just looking for a bit of advice/general thoughts on my LPG situation. We moved into a 3 bed cottage with LPG central heating back in June and the tank had been left at 65% full. It is now 50%. We have had a letter from Flo Gas who own the tank offering us 22 pence per day standing charge and 46 pence + Vat per litre of gas. However this said that all prices are variable! Does this mean that they are likely to charge a lot more than 46 pence??!! Also I had heard some poor reports regarding Flo Gas so had countrywide come out to see what deals they could do, they told me I would have to get the tank moved away from the wall, change pipework etc so this was prohibitively expensive, does this mean I am more than likely to have to stick with Flo Gas??
Sorry for rambling, any thoughts gratefully recieved!

Hi Taunton,

I was in a similar situation to you. Flogas did increase the price and by quite eye-watering amounts: started at 39ppl in August 2010 which rose 4 times to reach 59.5ppl by February 2011. There attitude to such rises and "customer service" made the increases even more galling.

We too looked at changing supplier but the tank siting was an issue for most suppliers though we did find a good independent who would take on the existing tank so it might be worth you giving some of the smaller companies a call if they serve your area.

But in the end as we needed to replace the boiler anyway (as we inherited a horrifically inefficient Rayburn with the house - we're talking 50-60% efficient vs 90-97% available today) and wanted to store more fuel than the biggest LPG tank would allow so we switched to an oil boiler and a 2500 tank. I have no regrets as we can fill up when it's cheap (well cheaper!) and ride out the winter increases.