Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

frankie

Coolcustomer wrote: »

Hi all,

Had new contract proposal through from Calor this week - I noticed in their terms and conditions that they are allowed to increase their prices by up to 3.5ppl every THREE months before I can terminate our contract. Does this sound right to anyone? I may be mistaken, and unfortunately haven't got my previous contract to hand, but it looks like they have only been increasing their prices every SIX months previously.

I have been offered 47.5ppl (with £50 account credit), and please forgive me if my maths doesn't work out, but if they increase by 3.5ppl every three months, by October 2014 I'll be paying 75.5ppl! That's a massive 28ppl increase in two years. When I looked back on this last two year's statements (Oct 2010 - Oct 2012) the total price went up by 14ppl. How much greedier can they possibly get? Does this mean from 2014-2016 they are hoping for their price increase to double again from 28ppl to 56ppl??!!! There may be trouble ahead..........

Anyone read their t&c recently, have any other companies changed the price increase frequency from 6 mths to 3 mths?

Welcome to the forum.

I think it was over a year ago now when Calor changed from any 6 months to any 3 months.

I think by current standards you have a pretty good deal to get the gas at 47 ppl. Get Calor to send you a new contract and check the increase period. Remember if they go over the 'cap' you have the option to leave them.

Coolcustomer

Phoned Calor yesterday and had a rant about this!

Managed to get 47.5ppl down to 47ppl fixed for six months - wow! Guess I'll have to go with this as there are very few suppliers down my way - I'm in East Kent and think we only have Avantis, Flogas and Calor as our alternatives.

frankie

Coolcustomer wrote: »

Phoned Calor yesterday and had a rant about this!

Managed to get 47.5ppl down to 47ppl fixed for six months - wow! Guess I'll have to go with this as there are very few suppliers down my way - I'm in East Kent and think we only have Avantis, Flogas and Calor as our alternatives.

Well done!! Keep an eye on the prices though. How much lpg do you consume per year?

dwphipps

Hi all,

Just renewed with flogas at 44 pence , 9 months fixed and a £100 credit.had to be brave though and shop around a bit.

Despite their reputation this was still the best deal by a long way so I have taken the plunge...

Wal1959

Hi
I am out of contract with Avantigas (Southwest Cornwall) and just checked my current price after a recent 2.5p increase. It is now 55.8 plus VAT per litre and 8.33 per month tank rental plus VAT. On phoning I received a quote of 52.8p for 6 months and no more than 5p/6 months increase after that. Can anyone help me compare this?

HateLPG

Wal1959 wrote: »

Hi
I am out of contract with Avantigas (Southwest Cornwall) and just checked my current price after a recent 2.5p increase. It is now 55.8 plus VAT per litre and 8.33 per month tank rental plus VAT. On phoning I received a quote of 52.8p for 6 months and no more than 5p/6 months increase after that. Can anyone help me compare this?

Hi Wal1959, and welcome.

It all depends on your usage of course, but I was recently (i.e. about a month ago) quoted 42ppl fixed for SIX months + 5ppl/6months thereafter. I am quite a high user (around 5,000 litres a year), and am based in North Yorkshire, but this should give you an idea of how competitive your quote is (or is not).

Also note, with Avanti (and any other supplier for that matter) that the price increase is not fixed. All it does is allow you to cancel your contract if they increase the price by more than the stated amount. But that's not a lot of help if you can't get a supply more cheaply elsewhere once you have cancelled. And the suppliers know that full well.

jimmy_teabags

anyone know the best price to get some for the north east?(middlesbrough)

our whole system, with water is ran on this. not even a heater on the night to warm the water!

HateLPG

OK, now that the deed is done, I think it is time to spill the beans on my latest LPG "negotiations". The important points are:

1. I use c.a. 5,000 litres per year;
2. My contract was due to expire at the end of September;
3. I was with Avanti (underground tank) and was paying 47.5ppl, with the next "5ppl / 6 months rise" due anytime;
4. I am on automatic top-up and prefer to pay by Direct Debit;
5. My tank was at about 20%;
6. I live in North Yorkshire;

First, some background regarding my experience with Avanti:

When I initially signed up, it was with Shell and I signed at 36ppl fixed for 12 months and then a "limit" of 5ppl every six months thereafter. The mathematically-minded among you will already have spotted that I should therefore have currently been on a rate no higher than 46ppl. On the plus side, I must make it clear from that outset that I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the service and delivery provided both by Shell and Avanti and I always found them easy to deal with. Until Avanti bought the business, there was also no time when Shell exceeded the 5ppl/6 month increase limit. Indeed, at least one expected rise did not materialise. Earlier this year, however, I was stung with a succession of potentially contract-busting increases. These were, of course, linked to the excessive rises in wholesale prices that affected the entire sector and as such, although I was free to leave should I so wish, in practical terms, I was still paying a competitive rate and knew full well that I was unlikely to get a better offer elsewhere. I took pains to ensure that Avanti knew that I was aware of the situation and was promised that if prices fell, I would be given a commensurate reduction in my contract price (which never actually happened). I should also point out that (inevitably) the notifications of an increase in price inevitably landed on the doormat when the tank was on the low side and just a day or two before they arrived to do a scheduled topup. Call me cynical, but I don't believe that was unintentional.

As my contract expiry date approached, I put Avanti on notice that I wished to suspend automatic topups and asked them for their best offer for contract renewal. I also contacted a number of other supply companies to ask for a quotation for supply. The responses I received are as follows:

Calor
Refused even to quote as they "do not take ex-Shell tanks". Apparently, this is because Shell use a non-standard regulator, which Calor deem to be unsafe, should they ever need to empty the tank.*

Flogas
Didn't even respond to my e-mailed request for a quotation. I wasn't going to lose any sleep over this as I never had any intention of signing anything with them anyway. But it would have been interesting to know what they were prepared to offer;

Avanti
Initially offered two alternatives:

Option 1
42ppl (ex-VAT) fixed for SIX months, with a "maximum" increase of 5ppl per 6 months thereafter;

Option 2
44ppl (ex-VAT) fixed for TWELVE months, with a "maximum" increase of 5ppl per 6 months thereafter;

In both cases, the tank rental (underground) was £100 p.a.

LPG Homeheat
43ppl (inc-VAT) fixed for SIX months and a maximum cap on increases of 4p within a 6 months period to the end of the two year contract.

HOWEVER, they offer a "VAT PAID" deal on this, provided that payment is by Direct Debit and that the deliver by automated topup (both of which are my preferred option), so in effect, the offer works out at:

40.95ppl (ex-VAT) fixed for SIX months and a maximum cap on increases of 3.8p within a 6 months period to the end of the two year contract.

Free Home Emergency Boiler Breakdown Cover: Two call outs in a twelve month membership period, first call out up to the value of £250 and a second up to the value of £190. (As my boiler is only about 3 years old, this will save me a few quid on my existing breakdown cover )

Underground tank rental: £99 p.a.

On the down side, they reserve the right to impose a surcharge should the ANSI price of LPG exceed 120% of the price at the time of signing the contract. But if that means that the 4ppl cap really is a cap and the surcharge is used genuinely and honestly to insure themselves against wild increases in input costs in a highly volatile market, I have no issue with that.

They are also a small family-run company, so it should (in theory) be easy to speak to someone with the authority, knowledge and initiative to negotiate should things go pear-shaped!

Premier LPG
43p per litre (ex-VAT) fixed SIX months, with a "maximum" increase of 3.5ppl per 6 months thereafter;

As a new customer, the first 100 litres would be free.

Underground tank rental: £95 p.a.

Extra Fuel
Their offer really was most interesting and was for a substantively different type of contract. They offered two options:

Option 1
Just pay the monthly price in effect at the time of delivery as shown on their website; or

Option 2
42.5ppl (ex-VAT) fixed for TWELVE months and then EITHER:

a) Pay the standard variable rate for the next twelve months; or

b) Negotiate a NEW two-year contract with their current best twelve-month fixed rate (i.e. it becomes a sort of "rolling" contract)

Underground tank rental: £120 (plus VAT) p.a.

They do not operate on automatic top-ups, but you have to call in and order a delivery when you require it, with a five working day lead time. They offer an additional 1ppl discount if you order and pay online in full by Credit Card.

I also sent email requests for quotation to every other supplier appeared to be within "delivery range" - Innergy, BDS, Energas, Rectory Gas Supplies, Discount Gas Supplies and The Ridings Machinery Ring - but received not so much as an acknowledgement from any of those companies.

It was a difficult (and very close) decision, but in the end I decided to go with LPG Homeheat this time round, not least as they were extremely swift and straightforward in response to my initial request for a quotation and to every subsequent question that I had. They were also more than happy to include an additional clause in the contract that effectively releases me entirely from any liability or obligation should they ever be bought out by another supply company. Hopefully, that will never happen, but if Aunty Flo DOES try to get her hooks into LPG Homeheat, I, at least, will be safe!

Avanti did make a (rather feeble) last-ditch offer once they received a transfer notification:

43.4ppl (ex-VAT) fixed for TWELVE months, with a "maximum" increase of 5ppl per 6 months thereafter.

Given that they have already proved how flexible their "maximum" increases can be and also that they have substantially greater buying and hedging power than a small independent like LPG Homeheat or Premier LPG, I would honestly have expected them to be able to sharpen their pencils far more than that if they really did want to keep the business!

So, for better or for worse; for richer or for poorer, I am now wedded to LPG Homeheat for the next 24 months. I am sure further updates will follow - I just hope they are all positive :-)


* I suspect this may be in breach of the Competition Commission Orders which, if memory serves, require all equipment to be of a certain agreed standard and directly transferable from one company to another. Had I been desperate to go with Calor, I suspect I may have had grounds to demand that Avanti bring the equipment up to an acceptable standard, but that's another issue entirely and perhaps one for another day.

frankie

[QUOTE=

Calor
Refused even to quote as they "do not take ex-Shell tanks". Apparently, this is because Shell use a non-standard regulator, which Calor deem to be unsafe, should they ever need to empty the tank.*

* I suspect this may be in breach of the Competition Commission Orders which, if memory serves, require all equipment to be of a certain agreed standard and directly transferable from one company to another. Had I been desperate to go with Calor, I suspect I may have had grounds to demand that Avanti bring the equipment up to an acceptable standard, but that's another issue entirely and perhaps one for another day.[/QUOTE]


Found it!
sharon.dias@oft.gsi.gov.uk



I definitely thing the OFT should be made fully aware of this issue, can I ask you to contact them via Sharon Dias (I think) at the OFT to let them know of this issue. Sorry can't fully remember the email address but I think Little Vermin has it in some of his posts.

DAVID.T_3

Just seen a letter from flogas to all customers stating that orders for LPG may now take up to 30 days from order :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


The RyanAir of the LPG industry.