Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

MCO7182

Hi everyone.

I was hoping for some opinions from people on the forum as I am not particularly au fait with LPG heating.

I work for a housing association in Northern Ireland. We have recently completed a new build development of two and three bedroom houses in Newry, County Down. Three of the properties have been custom-built for tenants with disabilities and are significantly larger than the 'standard' dwellings. All of the houses are served by Calor Gas LPG heating (using metered bulk propane tanks).

We have received a fair amount of complaints with regards to the prices being charged by Calor: some tenants are reporting minimal use of gas and bills of £90.00, with others reporting bills of over £200.00, all invoiced over a 21-day period.

Some tenants have forwarded their bills to me and the usage is measured in cubic metres at £2.105 per unit. One bill detailed usage at 39 cubic metres (for a 21-day period and the tenant advised low usage). If I am not mistaken one cubic metre is equivalent to 1,000 litres, which would indicate a usage of 39,000 litres of gas! That doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. Can anybody shed any light on this, in terms of measurements in cubic metres and unit pricing? The bills state that the equivalent price in litres is 57ppl. I have wondered if the reading should be 39 litres at 57p, which would equal £22.23.

Essentially, we are concerned that our tenants simply cannot afford to heat these properties. This is of particular concern with regards to the families living in the custom-built dwellings as it is unlikely that they would readily find other accommodation to suit their needs. It also leaves the Association at risk of owning a development with high voids primarily due to high utility costs.

As a note, more often than not we install natural gas heating in our new build properties. However, natural gas was not available in this area. Due to the need to adhere to mandatory sustainability requirements oil heating was ruled out due to the unfavourable DER / TER emissions rates. Air-to-water heat pumps and biomass systems were ruled out due to the massive expense. LPG, it seems, was the best of a bad bunch.

I would be grateful for any assistance.

Many thanks.

crazyz

the conversion rate for a metric meter box as per the metered competition commission order is 3.85, therefore take one reading from the other x by 3.85 gives you number of litres used x unit price of gas plus VAT at 5%

Remember gas usage is about individual use so there is no "standard use" per size of dwelling, its down the number in the household and how long they have the heating on for, when on a boiler (i would guess you have between 18kw & 24Kw boilers) will use between 2 - 3 litres per hour.

There will also be a rental/standing charge added to the bill for the meter

I would comment though that 57.0 pence per litre is on the high side for a metered site

MCO7182 wrote: »

Hi everyone.

I was hoping for some opinions from people on the forum as I am not particularly au fait with LPG heating.

I work for a housing association in Northern Ireland. We have recently completed a new build development of two and three bedroom houses in Newry, County Down. Three of the properties have been custom-built for tenants with disabilities and are significantly larger than the 'standard' dwellings. All of the houses are served by Calor Gas LPG heating (using metered bulk propane tanks).

We have received a fair amount of complaints with regards to the prices being charged by Calor: some tenants are reporting minimal use of gas and bills of £90.00, with others reporting bills of over £200.00, all invoiced over a 21-day period.

Some tenants have forwarded their bills to me and the usage is measured in cubic metres at £2.105 per unit. One bill detailed usage at 39 cubic metres (for a 21-day period and the tenant advised low usage). If I am not mistaken one cubic metre is equivalent to 1,000 litres, which would indicate a usage of 39,000 litres of gas! That doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. Can anybody shed any light on this, in terms of measurements in cubic metres and unit pricing? The bills state that the equivalent price in litres is 57ppl. I have wondered if the reading should be 39 litres at 57p, which would equal £22.23.

Essentially, we are concerned that our tenants simply cannot afford to heat these properties. This is of particular concern with regards to the families living in the custom-built dwellings as it is unlikely that they would readily find other accommodation to suit their needs. It also leaves the Association at risk of owning a development with high voids primarily due to high utility costs.

As a note, more often than not we install natural gas heating in our new build properties. However, natural gas was not available in this area. Due to the need to adhere to mandatory sustainability requirements oil heating was ruled out due to the unfavourable DER / TER emissions rates. Air-to-water heat pumps and biomass systems were ruled out due to the massive expense. LPG, it seems, was the best of a bad bunch.

I would be grateful for any assistance.

Many thanks.

McHaggis

I am coming to the end of my contract with Avanti Gas (was Shell), and received a letter on 1st offering me a loyalty discount of 5% reduction on my current price bringing the cost to 0.532ppl if I sign up for another 2 years (I didn't), then another letter a few days later saying that the price has gone up by 4ppl!!
It is a shame that there is no comparison site for LPG. I shall be phoning around for best prices for my area (high peak/cheshire border) and will post them on here

LittleVermin

McHaggis wrote: »

I am coming to the end of my contract with Avanti Gas (was Shell), and received a letter on 1st offering me a loyalty discount of 5% reduction on my current price bringing the cost to 0.532ppl if I sign up for another 2 years (I didn't), then another letter a few days later saying that the price has gone up by 4ppl!!
It is a shame that there is no comparison site for LPG. I shall be phoning around for best prices for my area (high peak/cheshire border) and will post them on here

Welcome to the forum!

Not a good time to be switching - with prices at all-time high (see here). No wonder Avanti topped their loyalty discount price - 53.2 ppl - with a price rise.

Of course squelch41, in West Dorset, is being offered a better deal by Avanti - 45.4ppl - to be disloyal to Flogas (shame, sir/madam!) and switch to Avanti (see below; original post here):

squelch41 wrote: »

Hi,

Think I might finally be able to change supplier for LPG.
Current best prices seem to be Countrywide @ 45p/litre + meter rental at £10.50/quarter or Avantigas at 45.4p/litre + £60 meter rental/year

Anyone got any experience with either of these?
Currently on Flogas who are dreadful. Awaiting a quote from Calor but they don't seem very popular either - the only thing is do Calor still do their termination of contract if price rises by X amount?

There aren't any small independents that cover us (West Dorset)

Thanks
squelch41

But bernithebiker - who used to be an oil-trader - thinks the current high prices are overblown (stocks high, mild winter ending, sabre-rattling in Straits of Hormuz just that, etc) - see here.

Of course, it may not be fair to compare McHaggis with squelch41 as one may use 6000l a year, the other 1,500l. (bernithebiker and jeepjunkie, and one or two others, recommend a maximum of 0 litres per year - see here and here and then start looking further through their posts).

Quite a few recent negative comments about Countrywide, squelch41, in this Bulk LPG .. sticky. I hope you'll both post your prices here - so everyone can find them easily in future. And I'd suggest you check a Calor contract very carefully for the break clause about excessive price rises.

BTW ref. Avanti's offer of 45.4ppl to squelch41, these are the current on-line prices by independents: Cardiff Gas 49.0 (here), Extra Fuel 54.28 (here), LPGas Wales Direct 54.9 (here) and Carver 56.9 (here). No comment is needed!

McHaggis wrote: »

It is a shame that there is no comparison site for LPG.

- this is the best we LPG-users have got! But you'll also find some useful posts here.

1113562

Just had a letter from Flogas which put a 15% price hike from 46p per litre to 53p per litre. I'm tied in for another year having switched from Calor. As others have said a current quick look price comparitor around the country for current prices per litre, surcharges and tank rental per day would be really handy. Thinking of changing to a multifuel boiler after using up all the gas in the tank.

Offgrid

New to this forum. Looks like an excellent resource.

I'm an existing Calor customer, out of contract.
Called Calor to ask for a price as "I am considering changing supplier."
Representative asked what I had been quoted by other companies. I said 48.4ppl from BP.
They came back with 50.0ppl and £150 of free gas. 2 year contract fixed price for 9 months. Price rises fixed to no more than 3% in any 3 month period thereafter (I think this means worst case scenario = 16% rise by March 2014).
I'll use around £500 of gas per year.

This seems like a reasonable deal to me. Have I missed something?

Price is before VAT by the way.

LittleVermin

Offgrid wrote: »

New to this forum. Looks like an excellent resource.

I'm an existing Calor customer, out of contract.
Called Calor to ask for a price as "I am considering changing supplier."
Representative asked what I had been quoted by other companies. I said 48.4ppl from BP.
They came back with 50.0ppl and £150 of free gas. 2 year contract fixed price for 9 months. Price rises fixed to no more than 3% in any 3 month period thereafter (I think this means worst case scenario = 16% rise by March 2014).
I'll use around £500 of gas per year.

This seems like a reasonable deal to me. Have I missed something?

Price is before VAT by the way.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for posting Calor's offer - and contributing to this "excellent resource"! I expect the price rise is 3p, not 3%? 3% on 50p is 1.5p so that would be better - but historically Calor, and others, have quoted rises in pence. If the rise is 3ppl per 3 months then this December you could pay 53ppl and by March 2014 68ppl.

I wonder whether now, with record prices (see here), is a good time to switch if you are out of contract? We would hope that prices will drop (see here re heating oil ... and LPG comes from crude, not natural gas) - but once locked into a 2 yr contract the major suppliers very rarely (if ever) drop their prices. There are many comments about this on the forum. So the maximum price rise clause just gives them a maximum rate they can extract more money from you, or risk losing you. The independents' prices really do go up and down - see that graph! (I wish someone would post the prices from other independents so we could plot them, along with Extra Fuel's).

I guess you use about 1000l a year? What do you pay for tank rental, please?
..

Offgrid

LittleVermin wrote: »

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for posting Calor's offer - and contributing to this "excellent resource"! I expect the price rise is 3p, not 3%? 3% on 50p is 1.5p so that would be better - but historically Calor, and others, have quoted rises in pence. If the rise is 3ppl per 3 months then this December you could pay 53ppl and by March 2014 68ppl.

I wonder whether now, with record prices, is a good time to switch if you are out of contract? We would hope that prices will drop - but once locked into a 2 yr contract the major suppliers very rarely (if ever) drop their prices. There are many comments about this on the forum. So the maximum price rise clause just gives them a maximum rate they can extract more money from you, or risk losing you. The independents' prices really do go up and down - see that graph! (I wish someone would post the prices from other independents so we could plot them, along with Extra Fuel's).

I guess you use about 1000l a year? What do you pay for tank rental, please?
..

Yes, previously Calor have quoted their price increases in pence but I'm pretty sure the representative said percent this time. I'm not averse to changing supplier. I'll do the sums when the contract arrives.

The £150 of free gas was new to me also. Previously had £50 back.

You're right, I use around 1000 litres per year. Tank rental is 17p per day (~£15 a quarter) for my 2000 litre tank.

LittleVermin

Offgrid wrote: »

Yes, previously Calor ....

I presume you are currently paying Calor much more than 50ppl, out of contract?

When I was with BP, out of contract, nearly 2 years ago I was paying 53.95 - which they offered to reduce to an initial 42.45 if I signed a 2 yr contract (but with useless topside guarantees). I switched to Extra Fuel, paying 36.29, their standard published price that month. Tank rental was the same (~£60). Since then the Extra Fuel price has gone up and down, monthly, as you can see on the graph, in step with the wholesale price.

"£50 of free gas", "£150....". Ace Gas Guzzler was offered £250 - see here! Maybe a little more room to haggle?
..

HateLPG

Double lucky me!

I've been away for a few days and have just returned to this little delight from Avanti:

8th March 2012

Blah, Blah, Blah, Oh Woe is Me etc...

With immediate effect an increase of 4 pence per litre has been applied to your account.

This following hot on the heels of:

6th February 2012

Over recent months the product price of LPG has continued on an upward trend, and whilst we have absorbed as many costs as possible an increase in our LPG price has become necessary.

With immediate effect an increase of 2 pence per litre has been applied to your account.

That's a (potentially) contract-busting increase of 6ppl (14.5%) in 4 just weeks!

It is interesting to note that this latest increase is NOT wrapped up in the guise of a surcharge, but is a fixed and permanent increase.

Some thinking, some market-research and some letter-writing is required, methinks!