Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Seraphinaoflondon

I'm looking into the possibility of burning wood pellets. Usually one has a buffer tank (buffering the heat, not the fuel) between the boiler and the (existing) central heating system. Not so straightforward if you have a combi boiler, of course. Then one could run the wood pellet system either instead of the existing system or to augment it. If I keep the LPG system, maybe even on contract, I could run the wood boiler (located outside the house) when I expect the heating to be demanding for a good stretch but allow the LPG to run in the Spring and Autumn when you want heat in the early morning and after sunset but not during the day. If the standing charge is less than 20p per day it could be very economical.

Another possibility, along with the wood pellet boiler, is to put in a wood pellet heater, in the living room fireplace. With these, you get room heat and (if you want) a back-boiler supply of heat. Could be really nice when you want the cosy-ness of a fire in the living room.

To those of you are regulars here, would it be worth starting a new thread to discuss wood pellet heating? I don't want to start a new thread if there is an existing one that could be used.

LittleVermin

Seraphinaoflondon wrote: »

<snip>

To those of you are regulars here, would it be worth starting a new thread to discuss wood pellet heating? I don't want to start a new thread if there is an existing one that could be used.

A quick search using "wood" "pellet" brings up several very short threads - in this 'board' ("The LPG,Heating Oil, Solid & Other Fuels Board"), in "Green & Ethical moneysaving", and in a DIY board. Since this board seems most relevant I would start a new thread here. But you can also find relevant posts and maybe use some of the info to spice up your post so the thread doesn't die quickly, as others have done. "Wood pellet heating - pros and cons?" maybe?

(Go to http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=78 then "Forum tools" and "Post new thread" ...not that I've ever started a new thread!)

If there's a thriving wood pellet thread I've missed I'm sure someone will let you know (hopefully by a polite private message!).

PS Here is a link to a post giving links to dormant threads about off-grid heating.
..

Ace_gas_guzzler

We've just discovered that the previous occupants of our house used just over 12000 litres of LPG in the year before we bought it. I think they must have been running a crematorium on the property before we moved in but I haven't managed to get confirmation yet...........

DAVID.T_3

HateLPG wrote: »

and if any "insiders" could confirm the "current regs" in this area.

I can confirm the Fire service are never used in this way and would only attend once things went horribly wrong

DAVID.T_3

johntb wrote: »

hi we are with cam gas and had a bill this morning (288lts)which was a supprise as we had not seen them come as we been in all week or had a delivery slip put in the letterbox we went and checked the tank and it only read 50% have spocken to them but they say it was delivered have any one ever only had their tank filled in the winter to the halfway as this dont make any sence to us we had lpg for over 15yrs and have never only been topped up to half a tank

i think i can answer this one for you. Around the dates that you posted, the Conoco refinery transport was on strike (Unite Union) and supplies in gas companies were very low. They would have been spreading the gas they did have, so that no one ran out. So they were trying to look after their customers

Bosun

HateLPG wrote: »

Hi Bosun, and welcome.

Just couple of quick questions:

• what is the "cap" on the price for the second twelve months if you go with Shell? If it is also 5ppl/6months, I would say it's a no-brainer - go with the 12-month fixed option. Be aware, though that the "cap" is only really a "trigger point" at which you have the right to walk away from your contract and seek an alternative supplier.
• Would you mind posting your current approximate usage - unless you are a "high" user, this would seem to be an extremely favourable deal.

The offer of a 12-month fixed price is an interesting, and probably welcome, departure from normal practice. Also, at the rate being quoted (41.9ppl) it would suggest that Avanti take a far less gloomy view of the LPG supply situation than some. But it does make me question still further the latest 2ppl price increase they have offered me and other existing customers!

Hi, sorry for the tardy reply.

The cap is 5p/litre every 6mths so in theory could go up a max of 18p in 18months if I go with the 6mth fix - I think I'll go with the 12mthfix in that case!

Our usage is around 3300l/yr averaged over 10yrs.

Interestingly, I went back to Calor last Thursday to see if they could match this (and then give me a credit for the difference between the price I paid and the 'new' price on my last couple of deliveries!). I'm still waiting for them to come back to me so it could well be hello Avant!

As per my original thread are there any other suppliers I should consider for supply into Kent?

Ace_gas_guzzler

Originally Posted by Ace gas guzzler
I've just sent an email to Sharon Dias of the OFT asking her to look into the costs and contracts involved in being supplied with LPG.
<snip>

I'll let you all know her response.

I received the following reply from Sharon Dias of the OFT regarding the email I recently sent her. No doubt some of you
might like to pass comment in this forum and obviously any input would be most gratefully received by followers of this thread. It will be quite a trek but I shall now start contacting any local houses that appear to be users of LPG so that I might get an idea of the suppliers and the prices they charge - could be an education in itself!

Thank you for your e-mail of 15 February commenting on your observations of the LPG market.
Turning to your point about contract terms being unfair because you have to sign up for two years at a time with no guarantee of prices beyond the very short term, paragraph 7.99 of the Competition Commission's "Market investigation into the supply of bulk liquefied petroleum gas for domestic use" report concluded that the length of any maximum exclusivity period should permit suppliers to offer a range of tariffs including price smoothing and lower prices in return for longer contractual commitments. The CC also considered that without a reasonable exclusivity period, smaller suppliers in particular might find it uneconomic to attract new customers. It therefore found that customer contracts should be permitted to contain maximum exclusivity of two years.
The Orders* that resulted from the CC's market investigation reference are aimed at helping LPG customers to switch providers after a two-year exclusivity period without the need for paying for a new tank. I am responsible for monitoring these Orders and ensuring that LPG suppliers comply with the Orders.
The Orders do not however govern the pricing of LPG to those in and those out of exclusive contracts. However as your contract with your current supplier is due to end shortly you may wish to consider switching to a new supplier. The UK trade association for LPG website has a useful search facility to enable you to find LPG suppliers in your area: http://www.uklpg.org/advice-and-information/switching-your-lpg-supply/
In order to help you to find the most competitive offers when looking for a new supplier, you may also wish to consider asking your neighbours for the LPG tariffs that they are currently paying and collate the prices charged to each household for a litre of LPG. This may become a useful bargaining tool to help you to leverage a cheaper and more consistent charge for LPG for yourself and for other residents.
Regarding unfair contract terms for LPG supply contracts, the OFT has been working with LPG suppliers to clarify some terms and conditions. We will be issuing a press release about this work shortly.
Yours sincerely
Sharon Dias
Sharon Dias| Markets Policy and Remedies | Office of Fair Trading
*Copies of the Domestic Bulk Liquefied Petroleum Gas market Investigation Order 2008 and the Domestic Bulk Liquefied Petroleum Gas Market Investigation (Metered Estates) Order 2009 can be found at: http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/markets-work/register-orders-undertakings/monopoly#named13

NormanMcL

I have been a bulk LPG user since moving to the Welsh Marches in 2004. My supplier has been Countrywide Farmers for all that time. I have nothing but praise for their engineering and supply service. My underground tank rental is £13.13 £12.50nett) per quarter. However, there have been two price hikes in the last 12 months - price as at 22/01/2011 was 37.9ppl (nett), price as at 18/05/2011 and 26/11/2011 was 45.75ppl (nett), and letter dated 24/01/2012 indicates "individual" increase of 3.5p making 49.25ppl a pretty eyewatering 30% increase over one year. Dwarfs mains gas and electricity rises that get so much publicity!

I will need a refill soon so started making enquiries. Flogas and the smaller South Wales companies do not supply here. Shell refused to quote because they did not supply tank. Lister Gases quote £75.00 annual tank rental and 52ppl. Calor quote - 43.5ppl fixed price for 9 months, but previous experiences of neighbours with Calor have been less than satisfactory.

Looks as if I have some hard bargaining to do, especially since previous posts have listed a price of 43ppl with my supplier!

It would very useful if correspondents to this forum could keep us all updated with their latest quotes and location, since market comparisons are not available and there is no regulation.

Mister_G

NormanMcL wrote: »

I have been a bulk LPG user since moving to the Welsh Marches in 2004. My supplier has been Countrywide Farmers for all that time. I have nothing but praise for their engineering and supply service. My underground tank rental is £13.13 £12.50nett) per quarter. However, there have been two price hikes in the last 12 months - price as at 22/01/2011 was 37.9ppl (nett), price as at 18/05/2011 and 26/11/2011 was 45.75ppl (nett), and letter dated 24/01/2012 indicates "individual" increase of 3.5p making 49.25ppl a pretty eyewatering 30% increase over one year. Dwarfs mains gas and electricity rises that get so much publicity!

I will need a refill soon so started making enquiries. Flogas and the smaller South Wales companies do not supply here. Shell refused to quote because they did not supply tank. Lister Gases quote £75.00 annual tank rental and 52ppl. Calor quote - 43.5ppl fixed price for 9 months, but previous experiences of neighbours with Calor have been less than satisfactory.

Looks as if I have some hard bargaining to do, especially since previous posts have listed a price of 43ppl with my supplier!

It would very useful if correspondents to this forum could keep us all updated with their latest quotes and location, since market comparisons are not available and there is no regulation.

North-West Hampshire yesterday 1000litres at 45ppl from local independent HBS and they do not charge tank rental or require a contract.

safara

Hi All

We have bought a repossessed property that has an above ground 2250L LPG Tank. The property was a pub, but we are in the process of converting it to a 4 bedroom home etc.

The place is poorly insulated at the moment, but this is being sorted out as far as we can with a building built in 1780 or so. Double glazing has just gone in and when the roof is redone we will get that insulated etc etc.

We have replaced the old combi boiler in it for a Baxi Duo-tec 40

We realise that LPG is expensive, so will be installing 1 or maybe 2 dual fuel wood burners etc (the place has a few fireplaces)

We had no idea what the previous LPG supplier or usage was. But following some phonecalls we find out that the tank is currently owned by Flogas.

We are obviously out of contract, so free to start a contract with whomever we like etc.

There are 4 suppliers in our area, according to UKLPG.org

I have contacted them all and have the following rates they offer. All are for the mandatory 2 years. We are in North Wales.

Flogas (current owners of the tank)
Standing Charge - £60 / Year
Price per l - 45p (set for 6 months)

Calor Gas
Standing Charge - £60 / Year
Price per l - 45.4p (set for 9 months)
£150 of free gas for switching to them

AvantiGas
Standing Charge - £60 / Year
Price per l - 42.5p (set for 6 months)
If price goes up more than 5ppl in 6 month period, free to change contract.

Cambrian Gas
Standing Charge - £40 / Year
Price per l - 49.5p

What would be your thoughts. I would imagine Cambrian is out of the picture.

With Flogas, would not have to change supplier etc. Are the rates/deal with either Avanti or Calor worth swapping from Flogas? Postcode is LL32

Cheers for any thoughts