Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Seraphinaoflondon

The_Hornet wrote: »

.... And just to remind you, I am out of contract and free to shop around....

Ah, that's interesting. My tank will be out of contract when we buy the property but will still belong to FloGas. Does this mean, assuming the small print is the same on mine as yours, that I can shop around? But presumably unless I own the tank outright, I will have to pay the daily standing charge to FloGas? Might I be able to buy the tank from FloGas, and if so, how would I have it maintained and checked?

Many thanks

The_Hornet

My tank belongs to Countrywide and I pay them the quarterly rental but I can change supplier if I want to and the new supplier can "buy" the tank from Countrywide. However that would mean me entering into a new 2yr contract with the new company.

I'm not sure if I can continue to rent the tank from Countrywide and buy supplies on an ad hoc basis from anybody, I haven't looked at my contract since the supply went in 4-5 years ago.

Seraphinaoflondon

The_Hornet wrote: »

I'm not sure if I can continue to rent the tank from Countrywide and buy supplies on an ad hoc basis from anybody, I haven't looked at my contract since the supply went in 4-5 years ago.

Oh, I'd misunderstood you. A one-off loss-leader is not of a lot of use, in the grand scheme of things. Ideally I'd like to own the tank, pay a contractor of my choosing to carry out all regular checks and maintenance and be free to buy the gas from whomsoever....as I used to with oil. That would really introduce competition in the market so I guess we'd hear the pips squeaking before that happens! Along with some oily palms to lobby against it on the grounds of safety, it's anti-democratic and contrary to canonical law?

HateLPG

Seraphinaoflondon wrote: »

That would really introduce competition in the market so I guess we'd hear the pips squeaking before that happens! Along with some oily palms to lobby against it on the grounds of safety, it's anti-democratic and contrary to canonical law?

I'm impressed! You really are a fast learner

On a more serious note, owning your own tank and shopping around is, in theory, an option, but it does have it's own disadvantages and I'm not aware of anyone who has tried this on an underground tank (not that it hasn't/can't be done - I've just never heard of it).

Another thought that ocurred to me today, is that there is a set price laid down by the Competition to calculate the value of a tank. Now, having a tank removed and the landscape re-instated can prove very costly - once you take into account "digger time", the cost of soil and topsoil to backfill the (very big) hole that will be left, and then the cost of turf, labour etc, you could easily be talking a couple of thousand or more to do the job properly, and that is possibly more than it would cost to buy the tank. I don't know whether this is even possible - there are one or two on the forum who work in the industry and could perhaps advise - but if it is, and the tank is sufficiently "old", then it might actually work out quite a bit cheaper and less disruptive simply to buy the tank and have it properly "de-commisioned" (i.e. filled with concrete) and just leave where it is to rust away in peace.

Seraphinaoflondon

HateLPG wrote: »

.... owning your own tank and shopping around is, in theory, an option, but it does have it's own disadvantages and I'm not aware of anyone who has tried this on an underground tank (not that it hasn't/can't be done - I've just never heard of it)....

I'm going to ask tomorrow, the 'team' at FloGas. Katie might know and be prepared to talk, if I can get through to her again.

Looking at the cost per kWh (or therm), wood pellets seem to be the lowest cost and, of course, these can be produced in Britain. Suppose I scrap the gas boiler (or, more likely, mothball it by draining and inhibiting corrosion) and buy wood pellet equipment, would I be much better off? It would have to be quite a big saving as the shear bulk of the fuel would be a problem to store and handle. But if we are thinking of changing, why not consider the least expensive fuel, particularly one that can be produced from locally grown wood waste?

... the landscape re-instated can prove very costly - once you take into account "digger time", the cost of soil and topsoil to backfill the (very big) hole that will be left, and then the cost of turf, labour etc, you could easily be talking a couple of thousand or more to do the job properly,

I've already decided to rent a digger (self drive) for a few days to landscape the garden, remove some large trunks, fill a pond, an old septic that's been replaced, some minor ditching, so given the right material delivered to site (rural area and lots of space) I'm pretty sure I can do all that myself for a minimal cost -- minimal plus the materials, of course.

swordfysh

HateLPG wrote: »

I'm impressed! You really are a fast learner

On a more serious note, owning your own tank and shopping around is, in theory, an option, but it does have it's own disadvantages and I'm not aware of anyone who has tried this on an underground tank (not that it hasn't/can't be done - I've just never heard of it).

Another thought that ocurred to me today, is that there is a set price laid down by the Competition to calculate the value of a tank. Now, having a tank removed and the landscape re-instated can prove very costly - once you take into account "digger time", the cost of soil and topsoil to backfill the (very big) hole that will be left, and then the cost of turf, labour etc, you could easily be talking a couple of thousand or more to do the job properly, and that is possibly more than it would cost to buy the tank. I don't know whether this is even possible - there are one or two on the forum who work in the industry and could perhaps advise - but if it is, and the tank is sufficiently "old", then it might actually work out quite a bit cheaper and less disruptive simply to buy the tank and have it properly "de-commisioned" (i.e. filled with concrete) and just leave where it is to rust away in peace.

Just an additional point - when I was talking to a delivery driver who was filling our tank, about the possibility of removal, he mentioned thast you would need the fire service there on standby - just in case anything happened!

Mister_G

That's interesting. When Calor swapped my tank out for a new one last year (similar process), there was no requirement for the Fire Brigade to be there. Perhaps it depends on supplier?

Seraphinaoflondon

swordfysh wrote: »

he mentioned thast you would need the fire service there on standby - just in case anything happened!

I was many years ago, but I worked in Cairo for Petroleum Pipelines, at their Mostorod refinery where I was responsible for updating the flammable and toxic gas detection and the stored and filling of LPG. Assuming that you know what you are doing -- and it ain't rocket science, I promise you, a bright eleven year old can understand it -- you would have no need whatsoever for fire fighters or appliances. LPG behaves much like invisible water and can be pumped as such even in its gaseous phase at NTP. The pressure in LPG vessels at NTP is not very great - NOT to be confused with LNG

johntb

hi we are with cam gas and had a bill this morning (288lts)which was a supprise as we had not seen them come as we been in all week or had a delivery slip put in the letterbox we went and checked the tank and it only read 50% have spocken to them but they say it was delivered have any one ever only had their tank filled in the winter to the halfway as this dont make any sence to us we had lpg for over 15yrs and have never only been topped up to half a tank

HateLPG

swordfysh wrote: »

Just an additional point - when I was talking to a delivery driver who was filling our tank, about the possibility of removal, he mentioned thast you would need the fire service there on standby - just in case anything happened!

I have to confess, I've never heard this one before. And there was certainly no need for the fire service to be in attendance when I had a tank removed two years ago. I presume the implication was that you (as the customer) would be liable for the cost of the Fire Service attending?

The delivery driver is also the person who is supposed to undertake the visual inspection of your tank for safety, and as such, they should be fully conversant with all the rules and safety issues. Three things spring to mind reading this.

a) The delivery driver has not been properly trained (or is an idiot) in which case he should probably not be doing the job, and should certainly not have authority to inspect the tank;

or (with my cynical hat on)

b) The delivery driver has been instructed by his company to tell people this if they ask about tank transfers, as another insidious way to "discourage" them from considering changing / re-siting the tank that the current supplier is happy to continue filling.

or (similarly)

c) UKLPG have recently brought this in as a new "standard", again as a way to dissuade people from re-siting tanks.

Could you perhaps let us know which company the delivery driver was working for, and whether there are any "known issues" in respect of your current tank installation?

It would also be helpful if anyone else who has been told this recently could also advise the forum, and if any "insiders" could confirm the "current regs" in this area.