Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

creameggy

creameggy wrote: »

Hi all. My contract with Flogas run out 2 months ago. They offered me £50 of free gas and a price of 51ppl fixed for 3 months. But as i had half a tank still left i decided to wait before renewing with them so to get the "cheap price".
Now im ready to order and thought i would have a quick look at Calour and they are offering £150 of free gas and 49ppl for 6 months but after reading this forum not sure what to do now dont want to get ripped off in 6mths time

Right here goes........

As stated before my contract was up with Flogas. I phoned Calor up to transfer to them but was told my tank was in a wrong place mainly because of an old tree and my neighbours fence. So i was stuck and was going to have to sign with flogas.

In the mean time Flogas has spoke to my wife and said they wanted to top everybodys tank up before winter sets in. My wife not knowing we were out of contract agreed for them to come round and top us up. This was on a Friday. On the Monday i phoned Flogas up and cancelled this because we were out of contract and was not paying 68ppl. At this point I said i had enough gas but would contact them when i was down to 30% to sort out a new contract.

On the Tuesday they came and filed my tank up!!!!!!!!!!!!

I contacted them on the wednesday and told them i cancelled the order, They confirmed the order was cancelled and would put me through to sales.

They have offered me a 2 year contract at 52ppl fixed for 6 months and variable after that.
£50 credit into my account
The difference back in what they charged for the "top up" and the new price
Standing charge is 13.60 per day
They have said there is no limit to how much they can charge after the 6 months.
If i could change to calor them i would tell then to take the gas out as i did not want it, but thats the problem, I cant change.
Should i accept the offer or try and get more out of them?, knowing that in 6 months they will screw me anyway.
I live in Spalding area PE12

Any advice please?


Thanks

ilikecookies

creameggy wrote: »

Right here goes........

As stated before my contract was up with Flogas. I phoned Calor up to transfer to them but was told my tank was in a wrong place mainly because of an old tree and my neighbours fence. So i was stuck and was going to have to sign with flogas.

In the mean time Flogas has spoke to my wife and said they wanted to top everybodys tank up before winter sets in. My wife not knowing we were out of contract agreed for them to come round and top us up. This was on a Friday. On the Monday i phoned Flogas up and cancelled this because we were out of contract and was not paying 68ppl. At this point I said i had enough gas but would contact them when i was down to 30% to sort out a new contract.

On the Tuesday they came and filed my tank up!!!!!!!!!!!!

I contacted them on the wednesday and told them i cancelled the order, They confirmed the order was cancelled and would put me through to sales.

They have offered me a 2 year contract at 52ppl fixed for 6 months and variable after that.
£50 credit into my account
The difference back in what they charged for the "top up" and the new price
Standing charge is 13.60 per day
They have said there is no limit to how much they can charge after the 6 months.
If i could change to calor them i would tell then to take the gas out as i did not want it, but thats the problem, I cant change.
Should i accept the offer or try and get more out of them?, knowing that in 6 months they will screw me anyway.
I live in Spalding area PE12

Any advice please?

Thanks

If you can't switch to an alternate supplier then like you say you are going to get screwed by Flogas so you need to screw them as much as you can before you sign as this is the only time you have any leverage with them. I say this as someone who switched to oil to get away from Flogas and their sharp practices!

Independent suppliers tend to be more lenient in terms of tank locations and will almost certainly give you a better starting price at least - is this no-one else you can go with? I'm sure you've done this already but you can try checking on the UK LPG website (uklpg.org)

If you really are stuck with Flogas then probably the best you can do is call their bluff and be economical with the truth by say Calor offered you x pence/litre match it or I'll move.

creameggy

ilikecookies wrote: »

If you can't switch to an alternate supplier then like you say you are going to get screwed by Flogas so you need to screw them as much as you can before you sign as this is the only time you have any leverage with them. I say this as someone who switched to oil to get away from Flogas and their sharp practices!

Independent suppliers tend to be more lenient in terms of tank locations and will almost certainly give you a better starting price at least - is this no-one else you can go with? I'm sure you've done this already but you can try checking on the UK LPG website (uklpg.org)

If you really are stuck with Flogas then probably the best you can do is call their bluff and be economical with the truth by say Calor offered you x pence/litre match it or I'll move.

Thanks for that.
I just phoned ENERGAS and was quite suprised how abrupt the bloke was. He offered 50ppl not fixed and thats it.
Calor offered 46.4ppl fixed for 12mths. £15 a quarter standing charge and £150 of free gas.

OptionARMAGEDDON

BP just increased in the Gloucestershire/Hereford border area to 47.95ppl, not including VAT, variable. Due to wholesale and distribution costs.

HateLPG

OptionARMAGEDDON wrote: »

BP just increased in the Gloucestershire/Hereford border area to 47.95ppl, not including VAT, variable. Due to wholesale and distribution costs.

That stinks (forum rules prohibit me form posting my true opinion).

Could you please post what thet price has increased from and when the last increase was?

For information, wholesale prices as published in the the Argus North Sea Index (ANSI) index actually fell by about 25% between January 2011 and November 2011. They were last at the current level at about this time last year, so assuming you have had no price increase in the past 12 months, a small increase in price to cover increased delivery costs is perhaps justifiable; If you have already had a price at any time during 2011, then to claim that any further increase is due to an increase in wholesale prices is simply unjustifiable.

HateLPG

creameggy wrote: »

They have offered me a 2 year contract at 52ppl fixed for 6 months and variable after that.
....
They have said there is no limit to how much they can charge after the 6 months.

Well, I have to say that is (unsurprisingly) not a terribly attractive proposition from Flogas. For what it's worth, a current "fair" price (depending on usage etc) should probably be somewhere between 45ppl and 50ppl. Extrafuel ( http://www.extrafuel.co.uk/ ) currently have a "November" price of 47.22ppl posted on their website. They post their prices monthly, and while (as far as I am aware) they offer no specific price protection clause, their monthly prices do seem to track wholesale prices reasonably well, going down as well as up. I know other posters here use Extrafuel and are quite happy with them - perhaps one or other of those posters will be able to post more specific information.

As far as the tank being "in the wrong" place is concerned, there is the possibility that Flogas are fully aware of this and that you will have difficulty finding an alternative supplier and are quoting accordingly. A number of people on this thread and elsewhere have reported that smaller independent suppliers appear to take more flexible view on tank siting than the majors (and especially Calor and Avanti (previously Shell), who seem to be "sticklers" for the rules). There does also seem to be a consensus among posters here that the smaller companies tend to be fairer, more flexible and more friendly. Being in Spalding, you are not ideally situated, but in addition to Energas (who you were unimpressed by), your likely suppliers are the big four (of course), Extrafuel and possibly Countrywide. It might also be worth giving Anglia Farmers in Norwich a ring to see if they can offer you anything acceptable.

The OFT, in their recent report into their Off Mains Energy Market study did pick up on contracts that permitted suppliers to impose unspecified price increases and also issues with tank siting, but rather weakly said only that they would "engage with suppliers" to seek improvement in contracts. So I wouldn't hold your breath on much of anything significant happening from that direction any time soon.

However, despite the OFT's apparent weakness in this area, any contract that allows for potentially "unfettered" price increases is probably in breach of Schedule 2, paragraph 1(j) of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (see posts post #696 and post #582 in this thread), and would therefore in all likelihood be judged to be an "unfair contract" and hence unenforceable in those specific terms (so quite why the OFT are dragging their feet on this matter beats me). This might be worth bearing in mind if you do get forced to go with the Flo, and subsequently get hit with an unreasonable price rise. But you would have to deal with that eventuality if and when it happens.

Just at present, and in the light of the very recent OFT report, the matter of Off Mains supply (including LPG supply) is very much "on" the agenda in parliament. So if you do nothing else, I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and set out in detail exactly what Flogas have said to you and emphasise especially the point that they have said there is no limit on what they can charge you after 6 months, and that this is in direct contravention of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. There are quite a number of MPs (especially rural MPs) who are very unhappy with the current Off Mains market and who it seems are not best impressed with the OFT report either. But they are able to question and to probe further only if they are given the ammunition to do so. I would also suggest that you write a similar letter to the OFT. While their report comes across as at best equivocal, and the closing date for final comments has now passed, it will do no harm at all to give them further evidence to use in their future "supplier engagement".

If you do end up having to sign the Flogas contract, I would also suggest calling Consumer Direct and making a formal complaint about the terms of the contract. While calling Consumer Direct can often feel like a wasted phone call, all complaints are logged, and if sufficient people complain about a certain issue, it will (or at least should) get passed on to Trading Standards for further investigation.

Lastly, but by no means least, if you are a member of the Consumers Association (i.e. a subscriber to Which?), I would strongly suggest that you make a formal complaint to them as well. The Consumers Association actually has an extraordinary amount of power, and has the right to make a so-called "Super Complaint" to the OFT, to which the OFT are obliged to respond within 90 days (see http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/enforcement-of-consumer-law/super-complaints for more information). While the Consumers Association are unlikely to take action if they are in receipt of just a single complaint, if they receive sufficient complaints on a matter, they will take appropriate action. And yours might just be the one extra complaint that they need to trigger further action.

Good Luck!

crazyz

I would consider making the tank compliant, as in the long run this will save you money. The tree & fence/boundary both have to be 3m away from the tank, although can put a "fire wall " between the fence/boundary.
You may be able to extend the base to meet the distances. I would get another supplier to come out to give you advice (BP & Avantigas (formerly Shell) both deliver in your area, as another supplier may move the tank free for your business, civils are down to you another option is underground but this will cost you. Other suppliers are quoting low to mid forty's so you will get your money back in the first and the freedom to switch whenever you choose.

crazyz

I would consider making the tank compliant, as in the long run this will save you money. The tree & fence/boundary both have to be 3m away from the tank, although can put a "fire wall " between the fence/boundary.
You may be able to extend the base to meet the distances. I would get another supplier to come out to give you advice (BP & Avantigas (formerly Shell) both deliver in your area, as another supplier may move the tank free for your business, civils are down to you another option is underground but this will cost you. Other suppliers are quoting low to mid forty's so you will get your money back in the first year and the freedom to switch whenever you choose.

creameggy wrote: »

Right here goes........

As stated before my contract was up with Flogas. I phoned Calor up to transfer to them but was told my tank was in a wrong place mainly because of an old tree and my neighbours fence. So i was stuck and was going to have to sign with flogas.

In the mean time Flogas has spoke to my wife and said they wanted to top everybodys tank up before winter sets in. My wife not knowing we were out of contract agreed for them to come round and top us up. This was on a Friday. On the Monday i phoned Flogas up and cancelled this because we were out of contract and was not paying 68ppl. At this point I said i had enough gas but would contact them when i was down to 30% to sort out a new contract.

On the Tuesday they came and filed my tank up!!!!!!!!!!!!

I contacted them on the wednesday and told them i cancelled the order, They confirmed the order was cancelled and would put me through to sales.

They have offered me a 2 year contract at 52ppl fixed for 6 months and variable after that.
£50 credit into my account
The difference back in what they charged for the "top up" and the new price
Standing charge is 13.60 per day
They have said there is no limit to how much they can charge after the 6 months.
If i could change to calor them i would tell then to take the gas out as i did not want it, but thats the problem, I cant change.
Should i accept the offer or try and get more out of them?, knowing that in 6 months they will screw me anyway.
I live in Spalding area PE12

Any advice please?


Thanks

Starryeyed

Hi all

I've been lurking on this forum for a while but this is my first post, I hope someone can help!

I'm moving into a new rented house in January. It has LPG heating, the current tenant gets her gas from Calor. By what I've been reading here this is on of the most expensive companies

My question is, will I have to take over the account with Calor when we move in? Or would we be free to choose a supplier ourselves? But if we are able to choose our own supplier, surely that takes a while to organise, what would happen if we ran out of gas before the switch happened?

Any advice would be very welcome!

LittleVermin

Starryeyed wrote: »

...
I'm moving into a new rented house in January. It has LPG heating, the current tenant gets her gas from Calor. By what I've been reading here this is on of the most expensive companies

My question is, will I have to take over the account with Calor when we move in? Or would we be free to choose a supplier ourselves? But if we are able to choose our own supplier, surely that takes a while to organise, what would happen if we ran out of gas before the switch happened?.....

Welcome to the forum - and the wonderful world of LPG!

Can you confirm the house is not on a metered estate (if it is, you're stuck ... unless everyone wants to move at the same time - and everyone is out of contract)?

Next question: Calor owns the tank but is the contract with the owner of the house - or with the last tenant, please? Or is the supply out of contract? Contracts last for no more than 2 years since 2009, and occasionally suppliers give shorter contracts to people renting.

How much gas is in the tank? And has the last tenant told you how much they used a year? And how much (in ppl) they paid?

You might want to put the postcode into the uklpg search (here) to find which of their members will supply (there may be others) - and if you tell us on the forum maybe people will comment on the prices/service, etc, they get.

As HateLPG posted here yesterday you should be paying between about 45 and 50ppl currently. But I'm told Calor is offering (some) people 39ppl fixed for .. months, plus £100, plus a free boiler service: they want the volumes! (and others are paying over the odds to fund this).

..