Attempted forced change of repayment amount

Incisor

Cardew wrote: »

I think it has been established to everyone's satisfaction(I hope!!) that a Direct Debit is not for a fixed sum, and they can change it without your consent!

Not to mine. It is not for a fixed amount. They can change it without your explicit consent, but if you tell them to do different, they can charge no more than you let them have.

Joyful

As has been said before if you disagree with a change you contact your provider. If they can show the increase is necessary and you disagree you would be advised to cancel your DD and pay in full any balance. The companies can and will refuse to lower a DD ( for instance if there is a balance). You cannot dictate the amount they will take (Incisor please note).Your choice then would be to cancel the DD. Of course people don't like bills increasing but sometimes if they do not raise the DD at this point then 6 months later it gets increased even more. The aim of a payment plan is to break even at the end of 12 months.

Many peoples plans get reassessed on Estimated bills so people should make sure at least the computer has the correct info to work on. Sometimes though it gets it wrong. This is where talking comes in!

kissmeimposh

If you have a DD plan for itemised phone bill, for example; or for credit card payments as another example; then you if the charge vary it will be based on a clear itemisation that you can see and understand.

With the energy supplier at issue here, they vary an agreement based on a prediction which they don't bother to specify to you. It's just a prediction, which may turn out to be flagrantly overstated; and, they seem not to take into account any change in circumstances which would indicate likely LOWER consumption.

Each case should be considered on its merits and I think that if they have information which clearly indicates that lower consumption is more than likely, and they refuse to consider it because their computer has made a calculation based on different less reliable inputs and assumptions, then I think they would not be justified in altering the existing payment arrangements if they have been adhered to all along.

Maybe Watchdog or similar consumer investigative reporters will be willing to consider this.

kissmeimposh

Aside from the post above, is it fact or a lie that once they have varied the DD they cannot withdraw or readjust it unless there is more than 10 days before it leaves the account?

Incisor

Joyful wrote: »

You cannot dictate the amount they will take (Incisor please note).

Groan. Of course you can If you do, it does not alter the amount you may or may not owe under the contract. Again, from the reference provided by someone who disagrees with me:
The Direct Debit Guarantee gives your customers the complete reassurance of knowing they are protected by a number of safeguards.These include an immediate money back guarantee from
their bank or building society if monies are debited from their accounts in error.They also know they will receive advance notice from you if the date, amount or frequency of the Direct Debit changes. And of course the customer has the right to cancel a Direct Debit at any time.

If you tell them they can only take so much, and they ignore you, that is an error. If it isn't an error, it's willful. Nothing can alter the fact that the money in the account is yours and if a company comes along and helps themselves to more than you tell them they can have [even if they had already notified you they wanted more], you get it back. And you are entitled to feel sore if this happens.

Cardew

Kissmeimposh,

All the Utility companies have got themselves into trouble for doing exactly the opposite to your case; i.e. having the DD set too low and allowing their customers to run up large Debit Balances which they cannot afford to repay.

The vast majority of us on DD payment have seen our payments rise year after year as the price of gas and energy has risen.

This is justified and expected(the increase in the DD that is), and whist we might not like paying more, we have no objection to the DD system - that we joined voluntarily - being applied in exactly the correct way.

If you have an objection to the rise in DD, you can write or phone to have the reason explained. If you raise an objection that will be considered; and accepted or rejected!

If their decision is not to your satisfaction, you can leave the DD scheme or leave the company and move to another company who will operate in exactly the same way.

Let us take your case:

You clearly did not understand the Direct Debit system.

You then implied that your particular rise, was a way of them making money from you - it isn’t! As has been pointed out above they are not allowed to make money(overall) from DD surpluses, and in fact the Regulator has stated that they are always in deficit.(The debit balance are more than the credit balances)

You now base your case(it seems) on the fact that they haven’t anticipated that you will be using less gas/electricity next year. Now you have put that to them, they have refused to lower it to your satisfaction. That is their commercial decision; you now have 3 choice – 1. accept. --- 2. Stop paying by DD. ---- 3. Leave the company.

A customer elects to pay by DD because it is convenient and they get a discount in most cases. The company run a DD system because it is convenient and costs less to administer.

Taking your suggestion that “Maybe Watchdog or similar consumer investigative reporters will be willing to consider this.” - consider exactly what?

The DD system works exactly as it is meant to, it is sensible, and above all it is voluntary.

If you don’t like the way it operates, the solution is simple!

Incisor

Cardew wrote: »

Kissmeimposh,...

Let us take your case:

... You now base your case(it seems) on the fact that they haven’t anticipated that you will be using less gas/electricity next year. Now you have put that to them, they have refused to lower it to your satisfaction. That is their commercial decision; you now have 3 choice – 1. accept. --- 2. Stop paying by DD. ---- 3. Leave the company.

While still maintaining my position about challenging a payment, clearly in this sort of case, while there is money owing, you don't hold the upper hand. If the company dislike the rate of debt clearance, they may choose to withdraw the option of DD.When the account is in credit, you are in a much stronger position to tell them their take is too big.

BexTech

Incisor wrote: »

While still maintaining my position about challenging a payment, clearly in this sort of case, while there is money owing, you don't hold the upper hand. If the company dislike the rate of debt clearance, they may choose to withdraw the option of DD.When the account is in credit, you are in a much stronger position to tell them their take is too big.

They may also decide to move you onto pre-payment meter.

BexTech

If customers are on a DD tariff they may also be on a discount tariff, now if they decide to stop paying by DD, they then lose the discounts for paying by DD and also if they are on a discounted tariff they then lose that discounted rate too and would end up on a standard tariff and thus higher costs.

Cancelling a DD is really cutting your nose off to spite your face.

You could move suppliers, however there may not be a supplier who is as cheap as the tariff you were on and you'd also have to pay of your debt you owe.

Cardew

Incisor wrote: »

While still maintaining my position about challenging a payment, clearly in this sort of case, while there is money owing, you don't hold the upper hand. If the company dislike the rate of debt clearance, they may choose to withdraw the option of DD.When the account is in credit, you are in a much stronger position to tell them their take is too big.

I really don't want to go over old ground.

However you are absolutely right! You can clearly tell them it is too big, you can give them all sorts of reasons(justified or not) why you feel that the rise is not justified.

However, the bottom line is that it is their commercial decision whether they accept your reasons or not.

You have given them the authority to take varying payments from your account by Direct Debit - that is what a DD Debit Authority is - by definition!

If they don't accept your reasons, then you have to cancel your DD or pay the increased sum.

The option you do not have is to refuse to pay the increased DD and remain on the DD payment tariff.