Attempted forced change of repayment amount

kissmeimposh

Some months ago I agreed a monthly repayment plan with one of my energy suppiers, for a fixed monthly amount through direct debit, and have kept to the replayment without the slightlest glitch. I've no recieved a letter from them stating that they intend to raise the amount (by almost 20%) due to their (entirely unspecified and unexplained) prediction that I will be using more. They write "We need to change your Direct Debit to..." and "We'll start taking this new amount on [date]".

Can they change this unilaterally without my consent???

I do not consent to any other amount, cannot afford to pay more, and am not at all convinced that I will be using more energy. Is this a ploy to get more money? Are they allowed to vary my payment without my consent? I will have to cancel my direct debit outright if they attempt to take more.

Just to phone them back they'll be making money on their 0845 number, no?

Cardew

As far as I am aware all Direct Debit agreements with Utility companies are variable and not fixed. So I doubt if the agreement you signed was for a fixed monthly amount - that is a 'Standing Order'.

In signing the Direct Debit agreement with them you authorise them to take out varying amounts from your account.

They do not need your agreement to increase the sum, however they must notify you in advance(as they have done).

If you do not want that increase, contact them and see if you can negotiate. If they will not negotiate, as you suggest, the only option is to cancel your DD; but you will almost certainly lose the DD discount.

Premier_2

When you agreed to the Direct Debit Mandate, it was for variable amounts.

As long as the company gives you the correct advance notice of the changed amount before attempting to collect that amount, they are within the terms of the direct dedit scheme. You appear to have received that advance notice.

kissmeimposh

Thanks guys but please note, re:

- Mandate: I DID NOT SIGN any mandate. DD was set up over the phone and I know nothing about it behing variable. It was for a fixed amount that I agreed. That's it.

- Notice period: The code of conduct and the law seem not to specify wht is the notice period but the letter they sent me is dated (suspiciously) on a Sunday, and arrived several days later and left me with less than 14 days notice, of which 2 days they are closed for queries. So effectively 12 to prepare to alter my careful budget.

- Rationale: They don't contend I've used too much. They say the change in amount is "to cover the amount of electricity and gas we estimate you're going to use".
a) They give no indication or evidence or guidance or info whatsoever as to how the estimate was taken or what the estimated use is;
b) they mention 2 energy types but one of them I pay through pre-paid meter anyway so it is not relevant to to the DD which is for payment on the other energy type only;
c) I disagree with their estimate but they don't give me any the details of it;
d) Actually my home circumstances have changed such taht I phyiscially and factually will necessarily be using LESS energy. They did not refer to cost of energy, they specifically said "the amount...you're going to use", and not the amount to pay.

moonrakerz

I would agree that a DD can be varied provided that you are given notice, however, it appears that this DD was "agreed" to pay off an outstanding debt. If the energy supplier now believes that the monthly payments will not cover the debt, I would think that it is a bit "off" to just hike the payment up with no consultation.

This is I am afraid the shoddy customer service that appears to be the norm from the energy suppliers nowadays.

Incisor

kissmeimposh wrote: »

Some months ago I agreed a monthly repayment plan with one of my energy suppiers, for a fixed monthly amount through direct debit, and have kept to the replayment without the slightlest glitch. I've no recieved a letter from them stating that they intend to raise the amount (by almost 20%) due to their (entirely unspecified and unexplained) prediction that I will be using more. They write "We need to change your Direct Debit to..." and "We'll start taking this new amount on [date]".

Can they change this unilaterally without my consent???

No, that is why they give you notice

I do not consent to any other amount, cannot afford to pay more, and am not at all convinced that I will be using more energy. Is this a ploy to get more money? Are they allowed to vary my payment without my consent? I will have to cancel my direct debit outright if they attempt to take more.

Just to phone them back they'll be making money on their 0845 number, no?

To me, it is clear. There are 2 agreements to consider. One is the contract for gas and the other is the permission you give to BG to take money directly from your account. If you don't like the amount they want to take, you can tell them they may only take a lesser amount. That's the end of it as far as the Direct Debit goes. And if you've told them their max and they take more, then you get it back via the Direct Debit Guarantee.

Now, if you are not paying enough, you may have another problem to resolve with BG, but they cannot solve it in their favour by taking more than you have told them they can take. This may cause you problems later.

Tell BG how much, in writing, recorded delivery etc. Keep a copy. But make sure it doesn't make your arrears worse.

kissmeimposh

Thanks guys. YOur comments are helpful. BTW it is not British Gas but one of their colleague companies.
Considerign the way that in this case they are trying to, uniliaterally and without detail to justify their contention, substantially increase the amount of the payment, if they do not swiftly refrain from making the change and addressing the issues (I think lapses) that I raised, then can I make a complaint and expect some form of compensation to be considered in light of the time and effort required in putting right this unexpected surprise from them?

Premier_2

kissmeimposh wrote: »

Thanks guys but please note, re:

- Mandate: I DID NOT SIGN any mandate. DD was set up over the phone and I know nothing about it behing variable. It was for a fixed amount that I agreed. That's it.

You agreed to a Direct Debit. You've been paying by DD so you can't dispute it now. All Direct Debits are variable. There is no such thing as a Fixed DDI - I think there used to be when Direct Debits were first introduced but these have not been allowed under the scheme for many, many years.

kissmeimposh wrote:

- Notice period: The code of conduct and the law seem not to specify wht is the notice period but the letter they sent me is dated (suspiciously) on a Sunday, and arrived several days later and left me with less than 14 days notice, of which 2 days they are closed for queries. So effectively 12 to prepare to alter my careful budget.

In the ascence of any other agreement, the default notice period required under the DD scheme is 10 working days

kissmeimposh wrote:

- Rationale: They don't contend I've used too much. They say the change in amount is "to cover the amount of electricity and gas we estimate you're going to use".
a) They give no indication or evidence or guidance or info whatsoever as to how the estimate was taken or what the estimated use is;
b) they mention 2 energy types but one of them I pay through pre-paid meter anyway so it is not relevant to to the DD which is for payment on the other energy type only;
c) I disagree with their estimate but they don't give me any the details of it;
d) Actually my home circumstances have changed such taht I phyiscially and factually will necessarily be using LESS energy. They did not refer to cost of energy, they specifically said "the amount...you're going to use", and not the amount to pay.

Why not contact the supplier and advise them? They are not mind readers. Perhaps they will agree to revised monthly payments.
Obviously you will have to pay the supplier what is agreed based on consumption and price. The supplier would have advised you of any price increases giving you typically 14 days to provide notice allowing you to quit if you do not agree to that price revision. You could only quit if you then agreed with another company to take over the supply.

SwanJon

They check the DD plan every 6 months, and estimate your future consumptin and any balance with the intention of hitting a no debt/no credit point at the end of the year. This should have been explained when you set the plan up ion the phone, and again in the paperwork that follow. This isn't an unexpected change - it is your 6 monthly review.
If you set up the plan 6 months ago, thery have raised their prices since then, so their intial estimate will have been out - that may account for some of it.
Has your most recent bill been estimated based on previous (not current) consumption? If so , phone in on their freephone number with a read which will recalculate the bill and the DD.
The DD is just a way of collecting money from you. As it is cheap and easy they pass some of the savings onto you as a discount.
If you choose to pay another way they will remove the discount.
Can you switch to a cheaper tarrif with the same company? Online are usually the cheapest.

kissmeimposh

My bank has advised me that the other side cannot alter the amount of the Direct Debit without my consent, but urged me to try to sort it with the merchant at first instance.
I will contact them but the means and wording of their 'notice' regarding the change was flawed for multiple reasons and I will not agree to pay more; and, in any event, the notice they provided was overly vague and misleading/inaccurate.
Aside from contacting them to insist on keeping the DD at the same level, or cancelling it if they don't agree, I have located their online complaint form and issue a strong complaint with view to taking it further outside the company if they decline to reasonably address each point I raise.

Cardew

kissmeimposh wrote: »

Thanks guys. YOur comments are helpful. BTW it is not British Gas but one of their colleague companies.
Considerign the way that in this case they are trying to, uniliaterally and without detail to justify their contention, substantially increase the amount of the payment, if they do not swiftly refrain from making the change and addressing the issues (I think lapses) that I raised, then can I make a complaint and expect some form of compensation to be considered in light of the time and effort required in putting right this unexpected surprise from them?

I think you are making the assumption that there has been any form of 'human' input into your account. These things are all done by the great 'computer' and letters automatically generated.

I doubt if there are very many of us that haven't had our DD increased at some time or the other and it follow exactly the same procedure - a letter informing us that it is to rise(or very occasionally fall!!). If we feel it not justified we just contact them and sort it out.

One of the main purposes of companies giving a discount for DD is that it is simple to operate and they don't have to enter into negotiations every time a change to the DD is required.

So in summary:

If you feel the DD is not justified - contact them!

or

Stop paying by DD.

You have absolutely no grounds at all for complaint; they are doing exactly as their terms and contitions stipulate. Incidentally if you start taking gas/electricity from them you have entered into a deemed contract and are bounds by their T & Cs.

As for compensation! For what? Acting exactly as they should?