Attempted forced change of repayment amount

Incisor

Premier wrote: »

http://www.bacs.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/44135DD2-570F-450E-8C13-E08E4DA8A8B0/0/M1338_1107_DDAnIntroduction.pdf

That's the instructiuon given

Same document:

The Direct Debit Guarantee gives your customers the complete reassurance of knowing they are protected by a number of safeguards.These include an immediate money back guarantee from
their bank or building society if monies are debited from their accounts in error.They also know they will receive advance notice from you if the date, amount or frequency of the Direct Debit changes. And of course the customer has the right to cancel a Direct Debit at any time.

So, if you instruct them not to take an amount or to limit their take to a lesser amount, that is not an error? It would be really strange to have a Direct Debit Guarantee which protected customers from errors but not from willful acts.

kissmeimposh

Premier wrote: »

if a mutual agreement is not reached and either of those actions taken unilaterally, it could place a customer in breach of the regular payment plans terms & conditions.

It could but an energy providor as a partner to the agreement in question can never an adjudicator of last resort. As such, if an agreement is not reached and the energy providor acted unreasonably, misleadingly or too uncooperatively a county court could hold the energy providor liable for that and any related costs or losses to the aggrieved consumer. The providor would certainly have to justify to the judge in greater detail why the regular payments were no longer sufficient and why that wasn't explained to the customer when the customer was open to elaboration after noting that the "needed" change in repayment rate was suspect based on the information provided at the time.

Agreement not reached does not necessarily mean agreement was breached by the customer. The direct debit arrangement through the bank is not in itself the full agreement of the repayment between the customer and the supplier. The DD is merely the mechanism for repayment, subject to the umbrella of the agreed repayments.

Incisor

Premier wrote: »

http://www.bacs.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/44135DD2-570F-450E-8C13-E08E4DA8A8B0/0/M1338_1107_DDAnIntroduction.pdf

That's the instructiuon given

Same document again:

Your customers may amend or cancel a DDI at any time simply by advising you or their bank. When you receive notification of amendments and cancellations they must be applied immediately, failure to do so may result in you or the bank being liable for any errors.

Now, we are done on this, yes?

Premier_2

Incisor wrote: »

Same document:

The Direct Debit Guarantee gives your customers the complete reassurance of knowing they are protected by a number of safeguards.These include an immediate money back guarantee from
their bank or building society if monies are debited from their accounts in error.They also know they will receive advance notice from you if the date, amount or frequency of the Direct Debit changes. And of course the customer has the right to cancel a Direct Debit at any time.

So, if you instruct them not to take an amount or to limit their take to a lesser amount, that is not an error? It would be really strange to have a Direct Debit Guarantee which protected customers from errors but not from willful acts.

Correct!
As I said - the banks don't investigate any claim, they have to take the buyers word fot it and refund
...but that doesn't exclude the originator claiming direct from the payer as you posted earlier I believe

Premier_2

kissmeimposh wrote:

Can they change this unilaterally without my consent???

kissmeimposh wrote: »

It could but an energy providor as a partner to the agreement in question can never an adjudicator of last resort. As such, if an agreement is not reached and the energy providor acted unreasonably, misleadingly or too uncooperatively a county court could hold the energy providor liable for that and any related costs or losses to the aggrieved consumer. The providor would certainly have to justify to the judge in greater detail why the regular payments were no longer sufficient and why that wasn't explained to the customer when the customer was open to elaboration after noting that the "needed" change in repayment rate was suspect based on the information provided at the time.

Agreement not reached does not necessarily mean agreement was breached by the customer. The direct debit arrangement through the bank is not in itself the full agreement of the repayment between the customer and the supplier. The DD is merely the mechanism for repayment, subject to the umbrella of the agreed repayments.

If you already know the answer, why were you posting here for advice?

Premier_2

Incisor wrote: »

Same document again:

Your customers may amend or cancel a DDI at any time simply by advising you or their bank. When you receive notification of amendments and cancellations they must be applied immediately, failure to do so may result in you or the bank being liable for any errors.

Now, we are done on this, yes?

As a DD is an instruction to the bank allowing the supplier to claim variable amounts, the only other instruction can be to stop collecting payments.
Fixed amount DDs are no longer allowed under the DD scheme.

So yes, I'm done as I don't want this to continue to be a kissmeimposh/Incisor mutual thanking thread

kissmeimposh

craftygranny wrote: »

I got a letter too from my supplier saying they wanted to change my direct debit from £150 pounds per month to £353 ...

Trisha that is astounding! Did the lady bother to explain any rationale or does it seem like they expect that if they tell you the reason is 'the computer said to do it' then consumers facing hundreds of pounds more per month will just respond to the effect of, 'oh, ok then' ?

That could be a lucrative income-generating technique: a. Inform DD customers at the last minute that you're going to take enourmous increases from their account, without bothering to specify any methodology of calculations or specific predictions; b. To those who don't miss the 'notification' letter and do bother to query or refute the change, just blame it on an anonymous mysterious computer; c. The customers will be so relieved to later have the repayment amount be approved to reamin the same that they'll actually thank the company. As if they've been done a favour; d. Supplier doesn't earn any less and in fact probably makes a bit of bob on the 0870/0845 phonecall from the customer. Nice one, though a bit on the rogue side.

In principle comparable to waterboarding: After hours of intervals of torture, stop and give the prisoner rest, air, food and water and maybe even a smoke, and he'll be sooooo grateful to you as if you've done him a favour and didn't owe him these basic things - not to mention a reasonable explanation - in the first place.

How much notice did you get before the huge extra amount would have been charged? And aren't you glad you weren't away on holiday for 3 weeks only to find out when you returned home there was an extra 200 quid charged from your account?

kissmeimposh

Premier wrote: »

I don't want this to continue to be a kissmeimposh/Incisor mutual thanking thread

Now you're in the loop with a thank ye, so you have no reason to feel unappreciated. :T

Incisor

Premier wrote: »

... As a DD is an instruction to the bank allowing the supplier to claim variable amounts, the only other instruction can be to stop collecting payments.
Fixed amount DDs are no longer allowed under the DD scheme.

OK, you are being logical. Let's continue being logical. As long as they charge on the right day, they can charge what they like and it is not an error, so the DDG only applies to a debit on the wrong day.. That is plain daft.

Now AFAIAC, the variable amount is a convenience for the bank and the debiter, to save updating authorities every time the amount changes. If I tell a debiter how much they can have and they take more, that is a breach of the DD agreement between the debiter and me, either willful or an error. I expect the DDG to be upheld, or it is worthless.

So yes, I'm done as I don't want this to continue to be a kissmeimposh/Incisor mutual thanking thread

Go and thank cardew then.

Cardew

Incisor,

In the month since you have been on this forum you have posted 583 times with a high percentage of them being confrontational.(an accusation that might justifiable be leveled against myself!!)

However you can bluster as much as you like on this matter.

Attempt to obfuscate and give quotations that are completely irrelevant.

The unescapable fact is you are completely wrong in your opening statements in this thread.

I know it! you know it! everyone who can read English will know it!

Yet you will, as you put another post, attempt to 'wriggle'.