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Main site > Forums > Household & Travel > Motoring > Bald tyres on a car
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    • User avatar
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      rich13348
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    • rich13348
    • By rich13348 20th Apr 17, 12:47 AM
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      What's this?

    rich13348
    “
    thanks, that makes sense.

    on a dry flat road do slick or tready tyres have more grip, out of interest?
    Originally posted by kmb500 ”
    In not sure about that. Interesting question.

    Given that F1 uses slicks on a perfect smooth tracks I am tempted to say slicks due to more surface area.

    However this point is moot as you cannot in the UK guarantee dry road for more that an hour and flat road is never guaranteed.

    Sorry!

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      almillar
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    • almillar
    • By almillar 20th Apr 17, 12:56 PM
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      What's this?

    almillar
    Slick tyres have more grip, of course, otherwise dry racing tyres would have grooves. Independent of compound etc, you want to have maximum contact area with the road.
    So when you're driving on the dry flat road with your legal tyres, you've got air gaps which gives you less grip - your dry road driving is compromised by the trade-off of having the tread that allows you to drive in the wet.
    In the wet, you still want the tyre to contact the road. To do this, you need to provide space for the water to channel, let the water out, so the tyre still touches the road. There will be a speed where the water can't clear, and the tyre lifts up onto a film of water. That's aquaplaning, which you don't want.

    Sorry!

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      straggler
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    • straggler
    • By straggler 13th May 17, 9:50 AM
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      What's this?

    straggler
    “
    No, you telling me that really wouldn't make much of a difference, and neither would the partisan line of manufacturers with a vested interest in selling new tyres.

    The facts are quite simple. If those makers could provide solid evidence that the risks of retreading a tyre carcass were unacceptable then remoulds would be illegal.

    They're not only legal throughout the world, the US actually requires federal vehicles to use them when available under EO 13149.

    As for your last bit, where have I (seriously) advocated continuing to run on tyres with worn out tread without remoulding first?
    Originally posted by Joe Horner ”


    Yes, those evil tyre manufacturers. And those even more evil independent tyre technicians and accident investigators. Who would be stupid enough to listen to them.....?

    Sorry!

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      Joe Horner
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    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 13th May 17, 6:44 PM
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      What's this?

    Joe Horner
    “
    Yes, those evil tyre manufacturers. And those even more evil independent tyre technicians and accident investigators. Who would be stupid enough to listen to them.....?
    Originally posted by straggler ”
    Obviously not just about every government in the world when setting road laws.
    • They make you wear seat belts even though you usually only harm yourself by not.
    • Since 2004 they make you have ABS.
    • They have detailed regulations on what tyre damage is acceptable
    • In the UK they even have a regulation to prohibit toilets that empty directly onto the road and to specify the type of chemicals they should contain!

    But they allow you to strap a set of remoulds on and head off down the road as fast as you like.

    If there was any credible evidence that correctly remoulded tyres were a hazard they would be illegal for road use.

    Sorry!

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      AdrianC
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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th May 17, 7:13 PM
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      What's this?

    AdrianC
    “
    The facts are quite simple. If those makers could provide solid evidence that the risks of retreading a tyre carcass were unacceptable then remoulds would be illegal.

    They're not only legal throughout the world, the US actually requires federal vehicles to use them when available under EO 13149.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner ”
    Not quite sure where you picked that nugget up from, but it's not actually true.

    Top of page 4.
    https://www.wbdg.org/FFC/FED/EO/eo13149.pdf
    “
    Part 4. Implementation
    Sec. 403. Procurement of Environmentally Preferable Motor Vehicle Products.
    (b) Consistent with Executive Order 13101 and RCRA section 6962, in acquiring and maintaining motor vehicles, agencies shall acquire and use United States EPA-designated Comprehensive Procurement Guideline items, including but not limited to retread tires, when such products are reasonably available and meet applicable performance standards. In addition, Federal agencies should consider acquiring other recycled content products, such as tires containing a minimum of 5-10 percent post-consumer recovered rubber.
    ”
    And that is IT. In a five page executive order entitled "Greening the Government Through Federal Fleet and Transportation Efficiency", that is the ONLY mention of tyres.

    Sorry!

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      maxmycardagain
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    • By maxmycardagain 13th May 17, 9:14 PM
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      What's this?

    maxmycardagain
    “
    It matters not how long the offender has held a licence.
    Originally posted by ariba10 ”
    but if they have held a licence less than 2 years could they lose it?
    Instead of picking fault, pick up a life........ you might like it

    Sorry!

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      maxmycardagain
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    • By maxmycardagain 13th May 17, 9:17 PM
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      What's this?

    maxmycardagain
    “
    Slick tyres have more grip, of course, otherwise dry racing tyres would have grooves. Independent of compound etc, you want to have maximum contact area with the road.
    So when you're driving on the dry flat road with your legal tyres, you've got air gaps which gives you less grip - your dry road driving is compromised by the trade-off of having the tread that allows you to drive in the wet.
    In the wet, you still want the tyre to contact the road. To do this, you need to provide space for the water to channel, let the water out, so the tyre still touches the road. There will be a speed where the water can't clear, and the tyre lifts up onto a film of water. That's aquaplaning, which you don't want.
    Originally posted by almillar ”
    Worn tyres and slicks arent quite the same thing, the worn tyres on a road going car are likely to have the wires and nylon of the carcass coming through, road tyres have to cope with water dispertion too, slicks do not.


    Lewis Hamilton wouldnt drive on these..

    Instead of picking fault, pick up a life........ you might like it

    Sorry!

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      Joe Horner
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    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 13th May 17, 10:34 PM
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      What's this?

    Joe Horner
    “
    And that is IT. In a five page executive order entitled "Greening the Government Through Federal Fleet and Transportation Efficiency", that is the ONLY mention of tyres.
    Originally posted by AdrianC ”
    That's all it needs to be:

    When available (obviously in suitable spec - they're not going to fit out of spec tyres), agencies are to acquire and use retreads because they're "environmentally preferable".

    Not sure how they could have put it more clearly.

    Sorry!

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      almillar
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    • almillar
    • By almillar 15th May 17, 2:11 PM
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      What's this?

    almillar
    “
    Worn tyres and slicks arent quite the same thing
    ”
    Worn - to what degree? I was talking about simply worn beyond having tread (or very little tread). Your example photo goes beyond that, and isn't work evenly. I was talking about perfect rubber, maybe worn, but smooth. No threads or nylon or anything showing.

    On a drying race track, Lewis Hamilton WOULD (and has done) stay on worn intermediate tyres. The track is drying, going towards a need for slick tyres, and the tread on the intermediate tyres would be wearing out, losing tread, and therefore wet performance, but improving dry performance. The example is true, but simplified as he'd also be burning up the intermediates on a drying track and need to cool them, not a problem on the road.

    Sorry!

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      AdrianC
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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 15th May 17, 2:19 PM
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      What's this?

    AdrianC
    Don't forget that by the time normal road tyres are worn bald, they're old. They've been heat-cycled a LOT of times, and the rubber may well be aged. The compound that's underneath the wear layer is not designed for wear.

    Some commercial vehicle tyres are regroovable - there's enough wear layer to cut new grooves in - but most other "recycling" is done by remoulding - taking the basic tyre carcass, and adding a new wear layer to it.

    Sorry!

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      straggler
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    • straggler
    • By straggler 22nd May 17, 9:05 AM
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      What's this?

    straggler
    “
    Obviously not just about every government in the world when setting road laws.
    • They make you wear seat belts even though you usually only harm yourself by not.
    • Since 2004 they make you have ABS.
    • They have detailed regulations on what tyre damage is acceptable
    • In the UK they even have a regulation to prohibit toilets that empty directly onto the road and to specify the type of chemicals they should contain!

    But they allow you to strap a set of remoulds on and head off down the road as fast as you like.

    If there was any credible evidence that correctly remoulded tyres were a hazard they would be illegal for road use.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner ”

    Ah, I see - you're a "the government's out to get me" person. It all makes sense now!

    You (probably accidentally) hit the nail on the head with remoulds when you use the word "correctly". It's a very difficult thing to achieve. Perhaps it's why those evil tyre companies (who could make even more evil profit from it) don't do it. And why if you ask for a remould down at your local tyre place you won't be able to get one. Hang on - maybe they're in on the conspiracy too.....

    And, as another poster has pointed out, there's the heat-cycling to take into account. Plus the ageing of the compounds used in the tyre construction etc. Tyres are far, far more complicated than you think.....

    Keep wearing the tinfoil hat!

    Sorry!

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    • User avatar
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      Joe Horner
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    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 22nd May 17, 6:11 PM
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      What's this?

    Joe Horner
    “
    Ah, I see - you're a "the government's out to get me" person. It all makes sense now!

    You (probably accidentally) hit the nail on the head with remoulds when you use the word "correctly". It's a very difficult thing to achieve. Perhaps it's why those evil tyre companies (who could make even more evil profit from it) don't do it. And why if you ask for a remould down at your local tyre place you won't be able to get one. Hang on - maybe they're in on the conspiracy too.....

    And, as another poster has pointed out, there's the heat-cycling to take into account. Plus the ageing of the compounds used in the tyre construction etc. Tyres are far, far more complicated than you think.....

    Keep wearing the tinfoil hat!
    Originally posted by straggler ”
    WOW! I really didn't think one person could misunderstand my post so completely and utterly!

    No, I have no tinfoil hat and, no, I don't believe for a moment that the government is out to get me (any more than any Tory government is out to "get" the less well off that is).

    Governments set rules to tackle issues - whether that's safety or long distance coaches emptying their loos on the M25. If there was a safety issue with tyres correctly retreaded according to the relevant regulations then they would (rightly - no conspiracy needed) legislate against them.

    The new tyre industry has plenty of reasons to warn against them, not least the fact that virtually all tyre marketing is fear based - "if you don't use our tyres you might fall off the road and die". the fact that millions of people throughout the world complete hundreds of millions of miles on remoulds without falling off the road and dying is inconvenient to that message.

    That's not tinfoil hat territory, simply the established fact that marketeers are there to sell you their product over other peoples' and fear (they prefer to cast it positively as "safety") is one of their biggest tools.

    Sorry!

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    • User avatar
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      AdrianC
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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd May 17, 6:23 PM
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      What's this?

    AdrianC
    The fact that car remoulds have died out almost completely is down to one fact, and one fact only - cheap far-eastern tyre imports have taken over that "never-mind-the-quality-look-at-how-cheap" end of the market. Exact same thing as has done for part-worns.

    There are still specialist suppliers of remoulds (sorry - "remanufactured") tyres for competition use, especially rallying - https://maxsport.co.uk/ and others.

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      straggler
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    • straggler
    • By straggler 7th Jun 17, 1:52 PM
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      What's this?

    straggler
    “
    WOW! I really didn't think one person could misunderstand my post so completely and utterly!

    No, I have no tinfoil hat and, no, I don't believe for a moment that the government is out to get me (any more than any Tory government is out to "get" the less well off that is).

    Governments set rules to tackle issues - whether that's safety or long distance coaches emptying their loos on the M25. If there was a safety issue with tyres correctly retreaded according to the relevant regulations then they would (rightly - no conspiracy needed) legislate against them.

    The new tyre industry has plenty of reasons to warn against them, not least the fact that virtually all tyre marketing is fear based - "if you don't use our tyres you might fall off the road and die". the fact that millions of people throughout the world complete hundreds of millions of miles on remoulds without falling off the road and dying is inconvenient to that message.

    That's not tinfoil hat territory, simply the established fact that marketeers are there to sell you their product over other peoples' and fear (they prefer to cast it positively as "safety") is one of their biggest tools.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner ”


    Well, it appears that I'm talking to someone who knows everything there is to know about tyres. I suggest you contact Michelin, Bridgestone, Dunlop etc and offer them your services. You could copy your posts here in your application letter. I am sure they would be straight on the phone to you. No, really they would. I mean, why wouldn't they snap up someone who refuses to do any research on basic facts? That sort of attitude is what the tyre industry thrives on.

    Sorry!

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