Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

I have just moved to a rented property with LPG. The previous tenant was with Calor. The property is part of a large farm estate and the contract I signed with calor was a commercial one as they have a group contract with the estate. My contract is 49.4ppl plus VAT and standing charge of £16.09 per quarter. Since reading the contract I see I have been tied in to a 3 year contract. I was hoping I could pay via monthly budget plan and get a telemetry unit fitted but turns out I cant as I am a tenant (it doesnt state this in my contract...only found out when I called them to set up a budget plan and ask for a telemetry unit to be fitted). Apparantly only homeowners can have a budget plan and telemetry unit!! I am planning on changing supplier as soon as my contract runs out (which unfortunately isnt for 3 years) if possible. I have also been told I cannot choose how much gas to have delivered as they will automatically fill the tank whenever I request a delivery. I wish I had never signed the blooming contract now.
I am presuming that once my contract runs out I can move to a different supplier as a domestic customer or am I stuck with calor because the estate is part of buying group?

littlecritterz wrote: »

I have just moved to a rented property with LPG. The previous tenant was with Calor. The property is part of a large farm estate and the contract I signed with calor was a commercial one as they have a group contract with the estate. My contract is 49.4ppl plus VAT and standing charge of £16.09 per quarter. Since reading the contract I see I have been tied in to a 3 year contract. I was hoping I could pay via monthly budget plan and get a telemetry unit fitted but turns out I cant as I am a tenant (it doesnt state this in my contract...only found out when I called them to set up a budget plan and ask for a telemetry unit to be fitted). Apparantly only homeowners can have a budget plan and telemetry unit!! I am planning on changing supplier as soon as my contract runs out (which unfortunately isnt for 3 years) if possible. I have also been told I cannot choose how much gas to have delivered as they will automatically fill the tank whenever I request a delivery. I wish I had never signed the blooming contract now.
I am presuming that once my contract runs out I can move to a different supplier as a domestic customer or am I stuck with calor because the estate is part of buying group?

I was with Calor for 6years (just changed to Countrywide), I was on a budget account with them for all of that time and rent a property. Cannot understand why they said no as you rent.

They can not hold you to that commercial contract, contracts are based on gas use (unless buying group is paying the bills) then they would have you as a delivery point under a commercial contract.

I would speak to someone higher up the chain, and get at the very least a domestic contract to allow you to change in the future.

Good Luck

littlecritterz wrote: »

we definitely don't use any gas for commercial use. I know the estate are happy for their tenants to change suppliers if they want to.

Calor said i had to sign a commercial contract and the rep that came out never indicated that i had the option of being a domestic customer just stated that it was commercial as it is part of a buying group. The 49.4ppl is higher than the amount they originally quoted me when i enquired about being a customer prior to my move..they quoted me 45.4ppl which apparantly included the standard charge yet this commercial contract is 49.4ppl plus standing charge and vat is extra (they originally said 55ppl but when i mentioned how much i had been quoted before they agreed to drop it to 49.4 as they hadnt looked at the groups prices for a while!!)

I can't emphasise enough how right Hate LPG is. I have been trying to help an elderly neighbour who wanted to join my LPG buying group back in 2010 (see previous posts). Calor advised her that her tank didn't conform to Health and Safety regs, so she couldn't join the group. Herr supplier Flogas, however, has continued to supply her. Things came to a head recently when she was quoted 69p per litre by Flogas to fill her tank. She is out of contract and doesn't want to sigh up again for all the reasons everyone is aware of. I wrote to Henry Cubbon (MD Flogas) highlighting concerns about her tank and the price she is being quoted. At the time I didn't reveal her details as she was concerned that Flogas might refuse to continue to supply her. I copied my letter to our local MP, as well as Charles Hendry (Energy minister) and the OFT. The OFT responded with the typically weak words we have come to expect. To date, I have had nothing back from the MP or Charles Hendry. Flogas put a customer service manager on the case and after some toing and froing we agreed that a technician would need to come out and advise about options (including the possiblity of moving to cylinders - at about twice the price of bulk LPG!). I revealed my neighbours details and gave dates and times when we would both be available to meet the technician. Two days later, she received a letter from Flogas advising her that her tank didn't conform to the regulations. The strong implication was that they wouldn't deliver to her anymore unless she arranged for the necessary work to be carried out. I leave you to draw your own conclusions about the timing of this. I will only add that she had had a delivery from Flogas about 2 weeks earlier, when no mention was made of the tank problems. I immediately fired off a letter to the OFT, MPs, etc. The OFT responded again, basically saying it all sounded like a Health and Safety issue and not part of their remit. I have sent off another reply saying that if suppliers are hiking prices to those customers who cannot change suppliers, because of Health and Safety issues with their tanks, then they (the OFT) should definitely be concerned about this. I await a response, but won't hold my breath. If, as it seems, there are a significant number of tanks which don't conform to current regs (I've been told, unofficially, it could be as high as 30% of tanks - maybe 50,000 households) what would happen if Health and Safety did it's job and forced suppliers to stop deliveries to all those households whose tanks don't comply? What would the OFT's/Charles Hendry's/the govenment's position be then, I wonder? I will update when I know more, but I urge all of you to follow hate LPG's advise and COMPLAIN NOW!

HateLPG wrote: »

Well, I have to say that is (unsurprisingly) not a terribly attractive proposition from Flogas. For what it's worth, a current "fair" price (depending on usage etc) should probably be somewhere between 45ppl and 50ppl. Extrafuel currently have a "November" price of 47.22ppl posted on their website. They post their prices monthly, and while (as far as I am aware) they offer no specific price protection clause, their monthly prices do seem to track wholesale prices reasonably well, going down as well as up. I know other posters here use Extrafuel and are quite happy with them - perhaps one or other of those posters will be able to post more specific information.

As far as the tank being "in the wrong" place is concerned, there is the possibility that Flogas are fully aware of this and that you will have difficulty finding an alternative supplier and are quoting accordingly. A number of people on this thread and elsewhere have reported that smaller independent suppliers appear to take more flexible view on tank siting than the majors (and especially Calor and Avanti (previously Shell), who seem to be "sticklers" for the rules). There does also seem to be a consensus among posters here that the smaller companies tend to be fairer, more flexible and more friendly. Being in Spalding, you are not ideally situated, but in addition to Energas (who you were unimpressed by), your likely suppliers are the big four (of course), Extrafuel and possibly Countrywide. It might also be worth giving Anglia Farmers in Norwich a ring to see if they can offer you anything acceptable.

The OFT, in their recent report into their Off Mains Energy Market study did pick up on contracts that permitted suppliers to impose unspecified price increases and also issues with tank siting, but rather weakly said only that they would "engage with suppliers" to seek improvement in contracts. So I wouldn't hold your breath on much of anything significant happening from that direction any time soon.

However, despite the OFT's apparent weakness in this area, any contract that allows for potentially "unfettered" price increases is probably in breach of Schedule 2, paragraph 1(j) of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (see posts and would therefore in all likelihood be judged to be an "unfair contract" and hence unenforceable in those specific terms (so quite why the OFT are dragging their feet on this matter beats me). This might be worth bearing in mind if you do get forced to go with the Flo, and subsequently get hit with an unreasonable price rise. But you would have to deal with that eventuality if and when it happens.

Just at present, and in the light of the very recent OFT report, the matter of Off Mains supply (including LPG supply) is very much "on" the agenda in parliament. So if you do nothing else, I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and set out in detail exactly what Flogas have said to you and emphasise especially the point that they have said there is no limit on what they can charge you after 6 months, and that this is in direct contravention of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. There are quite a number of MPs (especially rural MPs) who are very unhappy with the current Off Mains market and who it seems are not best impressed with the OFT report either. But they are able to question and to probe further only if they are given the ammunition to do so. I would also suggest that you write a similar letter to the OFT. While their report comes across as at best equivocal, and the closing date for final comments has now passed, it will do no harm at all to give them further evidence to use in their future "supplier engagement".

If you do end up having to sign the Flogas contract, I would also suggest calling Consumer Direct and making a formal complaint about the terms of the contract. While calling Consumer Direct can often feel like a wasted phone call, all complaints are logged, and if sufficient people complain about a certain issue, it will (or at least should) get passed on to Trading Standards for further investigation.

Lastly, but by no means least, if you are a member of the Consumers Association (i.e. a subscriber to Which?), I would strongly suggest that you make a formal complaint to them as well. The Consumers Association actually has an extraordinary amount of power, and has the right to make a so-called "Super Complaint" to the OFT, to which the OFT are obliged to respond within 90 days (see for more information). While the Consumers Association are unlikely to take action if they are in receipt of just a single complaint, if they receive sufficient complaints on a matter, they will take appropriate action. And yours might just be the one extra complaint that they need to trigger further action.

Good Luck!