Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Thomas Cook ONLY

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  • richardw
    richardw Posts: 19,458 Forumite
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    Perhaps have a bit of a search of the easyJet thread, a judge made comments about infant entitlement IIRC.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
  • Mark2spark
    Mark2spark Posts: 2,306 Forumite
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    Kids are entitled if they are fare paying passengers.
  • connersz
    connersz Posts: 27 Forumite
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    Following an NBA I sent to Thomas cook I received an email from them claiming it is still extraordinary and that the incident was classified as NEB24. It took me a while to find the NEB codes and found that number 24 says this:

    Failure of on-condition/condition monitored parts
    i.e. parts which should not require unscheduled
    maintenance or replacement during
    normal operational service (for ex
    ample propeller oil-temperature
    gauges. The premature failure of t
    hese parts during normal operational service when maintained in
    accordance with the maintenance
    programme is unpredictable).

    I am looking for advice on what to do next. I could take them to court as others have suggested without going to the CAA but I will be totally unarmed against that claim because I will hold no evidence to prove otherwise.
  • 111KAB
    111KAB Posts: 3,645 Forumite
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    edited 14 March 2014 at 2:19PM
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    connersz the NEB list is a load of rubbish.

    These links are for both versions >

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/187964205/Neb-Extraordinary-Circumstances-List-Version-1

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/187964637/Neb-Extraordinary-Circumstances-List-Version-2

    Neither has any legal standing.


    May as well put this in the 'mix' as well >


    http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/cases/caseopened.faces/en/51767/html.bookmark


    You (or a NWNF) will need to take the airline to court.

    Do not go to the CAA - they assisted in drawing up these lists.


  • Mark2spark
    Mark2spark Posts: 2,306 Forumite
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    Catch 22 Conner. Until you take them to court you can't know what the specific part is that has failed, and *why* it has failed, and what they did to overcome this failure.
    Only then can you dissect things and construct a case.

    But you're missing the point. They have told you the two standard replies so far, as about 80% of people give up at this point.
    Once you have initiated a court claim then quite often they change their minds and reconsider and pay up, - although they'll have one last stab at offering you vouchers instead of cash first.

    Honestly, it's all written down in this thread, dozens upon dozens of times.
  • razorsedge
    razorsedge Posts: 344 Forumite
    edited 14 March 2014 at 2:19PM
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    connersz wrote: »
    Following an NBA I sent to Thomas cook I received an email from them claiming it is still extraordinary and that the incident was classified as NEB24. It took me a while to find the NEB codes and found that number 24 says this:

    Failure of on-condition/condition monitored parts
    i.e. parts which should not require unscheduled
    maintenance or replacement during
    normal operational service (for ex
    ample propeller oil-temperature
    gauges. The premature failure of t
    hese parts during normal operational service when maintained in
    accordance with the maintenance
    programme is unpredictable).

    I am looking for advice on what to do next. I could take them to court as others have suggested without going to the CAA but I will be totally unarmed against that claim because I will hold no evidence to prove otherwise.

    First of all do not forget that EU261/2004 requires that the airline have to prove that there were Extraordinary Circumstances, not for you disprove them. It is very likely, however, that you will not find out the real reason until you start court action.

    I would agree with others that the CAA are useless and a it is waste of time getting them involved. There are plenty of posts on this forum about that. The CAA would not provide you with any 'evidence' as such, only an opinion (that is not based on the actual law and is not binding). So if the CAA eventually side with you (after what is likely to be a 6 months plus wait), the airline will still ignore them/you and it is unlikely to actually help your case if you went to court. If the CAA side against you (because they do not actually apply the law correctly*) it will not help your case at all.

    Do not forget that the CAA is paid for by the airlines.

    * You can see from the NEB GUIDLINES that the CAA do not apply the law correctly (the CAA were involved in writing these guidelines) as many of the so called EC's listed are not actually EC's (according to EU 261/2004 and subsequent case law - all cases etc. listed in the FAQ's BTW). Also have a read of this letter from the CAA to an MEP
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/201124499/CAA-letter-of-20-12-2013
    where the CAA admit that they do not know for sure what are 'extraordinary circumstances':
    Third page of the letter, third paragraph.....
    'ultimately, only the courts can decide definitively on the correct interpretation of the extraordinary circumstances exemption,'

    Sorry, I have been rambling a bit, and so to the advice bit...

    As you have already sent an NBA either:
    1. Start court action on your own. (Plenty of advice and information about that on this forum - would suggest having a really good read (or re-read) before starting.
    2. Check with a NWNF company if they think your flight qualifies for compensation and engage them.
    3. Walk away.
    The above is just my opinon - which counts for nowt! You must make up your own mind.
  • razorsedge
    razorsedge Posts: 344 Forumite
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    111KAB wrote: »

    111KAB

    Any news yet on a impending decision from the Ombudsman?
    The above is just my opinon - which counts for nowt! You must make up your own mind.
  • Mark2spark
    Mark2spark Posts: 2,306 Forumite
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    I've attempted to lodge a complaint on that as well, but it won't let me. Says I have to contact the 'body' before contacting the ombudsman.
  • Vauban
    Vauban Posts: 4,736 Forumite
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    111KAB wrote: »
    Do not go to the CAA - they assisted in drawing up these lists.

    The more I reflect on this list, the more angry I become. It is so far removed from the Regulation and related law that it can not have been drawn up in any other way except consciously to deny European consumers of their basic rights. It is - quite literally - scandalous.

    I am surprised that the European Parliament, given its close engagement on the proposed revisions to 261/04, hasn't been more vocal on this.

    Listing a whole series of different technical problems is just absurd. The law is clear that in order to look at whether extraordinary circumstances exist you need to consider the origin of an event. So it is less relevant what has broken but rather why is has done so. And as wear and tear is a normal (dare one say "inherent") condition of flying an airplane, all these problems could occur without any of it being "extraordinary".

    You might think that the CAA should have known better. The real scandal is that I believe they do.
  • 111KAB
    111KAB Posts: 3,645 Forumite
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    razorsedge wrote: »
    111KAB

    Any news yet on a impending decision from the Ombudsman?


    She is struggling I think as the result was due by the beginning of March as I was originally told 60 days after representations closed. The representations closed on 31.12.13 however when I contacted her secretary on Monday he advised that the matter was still with the EU legal office and he had no idea when the matter would be determined!
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