The SayNoTo0870 Article Discussion Area

wstephenp · 17 May 2006 at 5:48PM

Firstly, don't even think of calling one using Skype! £ 4.75 for a 15 min call to get a quote for household insurance! (Dial this number, could be the best saving you make all year 0870.........) NO!!!!!!!

One way is to track down their Fax number, Gather up all your faxes all week for quotes, requests etc.

Fax your enquirey and request that they call you back. If you have free calls at the weekend, and can send faxes from your computer, and it's dead easy, and it's FREE!!!! I can do it and I'm over 50.

Try writing to them, and look up old correspondence, both will usually provide their "old" number or their Fax number.

If it's a local town, call in, meet the person say Hello, ask for a direct number, it's good practice to know the PERSON (and you can get the fax and or direct dial (non 0870 numkber)

DON'T PAY IT!!! wstephenP

Flat_London · 17 May 2006 at 6:37PM

My worry is that Ofcom's changes are going to amount, overall, to no signicant benefit to the consumer (as per usual with most things ofcom does).

This is because they have chosen to leave 0845 numbers alone for the time being (no changes proposed to these) and they give some ludicrous reason quoting that ISPs still use them and thus they need to be kept the same. Without going into a detailed rant about this, Ofcome is taking the biscuit if they think they can pass this excuse over us.

I worry that if 0870 is clamped down on, then the most miserly companies will turn to 0845 where they can still revenue share even though they won't get as much as 0870. Indeed they may also turn to 0844 and the like, and rely on the ignorance of customers who don;t relaise that these cost more to call too. I think the problem with 0845 is being overlooked by people focussing on 0870. 0845 is just as bad a tool for ripping people off. You still pay up to twice the amount of a normal daytime landline call; these calls don't benefit from 'inlcusive' calls packages that you're already paying a premium for; and just as importantly, mobile operators don't distingusih the difference between 0845 and 0870 and still charge around 10p for them.

This last point with mobile operators is crucial I feel. At work when I need to make a personal call to some company's customer services (many still have 9-5 opening hours unfortunately), I can't use my office phone so have to use the mobile. At this point, even if 0845 is cheaper than 0870 on landline, it makes no difference on mobile. They charge extortionate rates and thus Ofcom should take theor charges on too.

fiish · 17 May 2006 at 11:35PM

I think Ofcom should make mobile providers include those numbers in their inclusive allowances. Considering the call charges after an allowance has been used up, it probably costs them less to connect an 08xx number than it does to call another network's mobile number.

Personally, I do not see such a thing happening in the near future. What I have seen in my own provider, O2, is the prices of those calls being raised. (35ppm for an 0871 call, and not included in my free minutes when 0870, 0844, 0845, and 0800 numbers are? Sounds a little silly :-/)

Explanation could be: a lot of calling cards for international calls use those numbers for access, and O2 or Orange certainly would prefer you to pay the 80ppm it costs to call Malaysia (that's home for me!) rather than draining the 100 minutes you didn't use into a low-cost calling card. Of course, those calling cards provide an 0207 number nowadays, so we still get our way in the end....

Sigh.

Yeah, I realise it's quite a rant.

bbb_uk · 18 May 2006 at 8:59AM

Desertmole wrote:

Last year one of our customers changed their system so that everyone in the business has a direct-dial 0870 number. They are simply a distributor in the automotive industry, and I can't imagine that like some "help lines" at banks and Internet service providers, they regard this as a money-generating tool.

I'm afraid the most likely reason for the use of these numbers is as a money-generating tool. Your customers may have been missold these 0870 numbers by their teleco with some speech about "they only cost the same as national rate calls and you can earn revenue at the same time all with no more expense to your customers." Unfortunately, these are lies still being sold today.

Your customers could have chosen 0845 and, although not ideal, does cost people calling them less than an 0870. The only difference between 0870 & 0845 is that they may not get revenue back on 0845 calls (although some teleco's do but very limited compared to 0870 numbers).

You'd be surprised at the uptake of these numbers not just by the "big" businesses (and gov depts) but also by the little ones as well mainly because it is a premium rate number in "disguise" (which ofcom kindof admit). They are a disguise simply because most consumers aren't aware that revenue sharing takes place on these numbers thinking that only happens for 09x numbers which are regulated for our protection unlike 084/087x numbers.

bakie_2 · 18 May 2006 at 9:39AM

I spotted a new trick in the last few months. I buy quite a lot of clothes via the internet, especially when there are sales on.

A couple of months back I placed an order, only to recieve a letter a few weeks later saying there had been a problem with my credit card authorisation, and could I phone an 0870 number to sort it out. I thought it was a bit odd, as I was sure the card had been validated online, and a bit mean to have an 0870 number, but I called anyway and got it sorted.

Then the same thing happened a few weeks later with another company. 15%off if you ordered within a couple of weeks, so I placed an order, but it was three weeks later I got a letter saying my card had been declined. This time when I called I got a little suspicious and decided not to go ahead. I then phoned my credit card company to see why the transaction had been declined, to be told that company hadn't even sumitted a transaction.

I wrote and complained, and got a nice reply which failed to answer of my questions. So keep your eye open for this. I guess it's a good way of making money when you are selling the goods more cheaply than usual.

beaz · 18 May 2006 at 2:59PM

Well done for pushing this. I use the site a lot. I have (had) an IFA wanting my business and was ablt to tell him I didn't do business with firms with 0870 numbers!
If desparate, I email them if possible, otherwise write to them, only equivalent to 3 mins premium rate classical music !!

Heinz · 18 May 2006 at 4:19PM

bbb_uk wrote:

You'd be surprised at the uptake of these numbers not just by the "big" businesses (and gov depts) but also by the little ones as well mainly because it is a premium rate number in "disguise" (which ofcom kindof admit). They are a disguise simply because most consumers aren't aware that revenue sharing takes place on these numbers thinking that only happens for 09x numbers which are regulated for our protection unlike 084/087x numbers.

But the 070 numbers used by Patientline are even more devious - most people assume they are mobile numbers because they start 07 when, in fact, they cost 49p per minute to call peak rate. At that sort of cost, they should be forced to use 09 numbers so everyone is aware they're Premium Rate.

alibabaery · 18 May 2006 at 5:09PM

I complained to talktalk about having to use 0870, which outside my package, to get information from them and was told that talktalk customers were identified, if in a package deal, and not charged for the call. I will check my bill at the end of the month to check this out! Small consolation but sensible. I hated the idea of having to pay to complain.:j

creddish · 18 May 2006 at 6:20PM

alibabaery wrote:

I complained to talktalk about having to use 0870, which outside my package, to get information from them and was told that talktalk customers were identified, if in a package deal, and not charged for the call. I will check my bill at the end of the month to check this out! Small consolation but sensible. I hated the idea of having to pay to complain.:j

Calls to the Talk Talk customer services number 08704441820 appear on your bill but are charged as zero cost.

Colin

bbb_uk · 18 May 2006 at 6:33PM

Heinz wrote:

But the 070 numbers used by Patientline are even more devious - most people assume they are mobile numbers because they start 07 when, in fact, they cost 49p per minute to call peak rate. At that sort of cost, they should be forced to use 09 numbers so everyone is aware they're Premium Rate.

I'd forgotten about the 070 (so-called personal numbers). I agree they are worse than 08x but thankfully not as common :rolleyes:

The SayNoTo0870 Article Discussion Area

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