Cca Requests Updates Please

blind-as-a-bat_2 · 27 September 2008 at 9:59PM

money_back wrote: »

I had a mbna cc which they sold to DLC i have a notice of assignment but can some one tell me if they need the cca with there name on to make the debt forceable. DLC brought the debt in 2004.

This dca are doing my head in, they must be one of the worst to deal with.

Thanks to the rankins some DCA,s are claiming that a CCA is not required as the agreemant was terminated before the assignment so is no longer a valid request.

Amongst other reasons one reason this is flawed is that the origanell CCA is required to prove that

A) there was an agreemant with the OC

there was in that agreemant a notice that if the account went into default they had the right to assign it to a third party

C) there was an agreemant too default on in the first place, without wich no default could accur, therefore if no default could happen no assignment would be valid, as a default is needed before the OC has the right to assign the debt to a third party.

So in my view the CCA is just as important regardless of what the judge in the rankin case said, incidently this is the same judge that quoted in that ruling two subsections in a paragraph of the act that dont acually exist;)

money_back_3 · 27 September 2008 at 10:10PM

Bazza66 wrote: »

My understanding is that the CCA will be under the OC (original creditors) name.

If they cannot supply it then they cannot enforce the debt. Have you sent the CCA request letter? If not I would send one off. Make sure you send a postal order for £1 and NOT a cheque. Not wishing to say anything incorrect here but I understand some DCA have been known to scan you signature off your cheque for their use.... alledgedly

no i havent sent a cca request yet as i was'nt sure they needed it as i had the notice of assignment, so they would have to get the cca from mbna or do they get a copy when they buy the debt.

blind-as-a-bat_2 · 27 September 2008 at 10:13PM

money_back wrote: »

no i havent sent a cca request yet as i was'nt sure they needed it as i had the notice of assignment, so they would have to get the cca from mbna or do they get a copy when they buy the debt.

No, thats where the fun starts as i believe the OC charges the DCA extra for that:D

Most DCA,s get a name and address and ammount outstanding, thats it, no proof the debt is actually owed.

Crazy isnt it:rolleyes:

loramos · 29 September 2008 at 10:24AM

Morning everyone.I recieved this today from one of the Credit card cos.I had prev requested a CCA and recieved a CC application form instead I said this wasn't good enough etc and this is their reply

I refer to your correspondence dated 29 August 2008.
I regret to advise that the card agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the card account has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires.
In the circumstances we appreciate that under Section 78 of the CCA if you decide not to meet your obligations under the card agreement as they fall due we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the debt. However we consider that you should continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind that the agreement isn't void, it remains valid and your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.
Section 78 reference to 'unenforceable' means we are only prevented from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.
Should further assistance be required, please do not hesitate to contact us at the above Office.

Any comments, should I continue with my £1.00 per month payments and if not what are the repercussions?

MisterNick · 29 September 2008 at 11:07AM

Can someone help please or point me in the right direction.

I have friends with sizeable credit card debts. They heard of a company that offered to find ways of making the debts not legally enforcable if the original signed agreement was not available. In order to start the ball rolling they needed to stump up £500, (I think per card but I may be wrong)

I advised them not to go anywhere near any body offering such claims or demanding up front payments,

I had heard about this in various places but did not have the detailed knowledge, although I have offered to help them (free of course).

I have read up on the subject, but would be grateful if anybody could help with my questions and also confirm my understanding.

1. In order to state that the debt does not exist and is therefore not enforcable, does the account have to be in default. i.e. payments should not be being made and when they chase for the money, you then ask them to prove the agreement exists.
2. I get the impression that the judgement in the Rankin case, has not helped this approach, but it is not sufficiently watertight to stop people from proceeding with this approach.

If some body could point me to a thread(s) where I can read up it would be helpful. I have looked through this thread, and a couple of others but there is so much of it. I have also looked at the template letters in another thread, but they seem to support my suspicion that you have to be in default in the first place.

I have also looked at the Consumer Action Group, and whilist I used it many years ago when it was infancy for bank charges it seems to have grown and I am having difficullty navigating it.

BTW my friends are paying off these cards so there is no chasing by the cc companies or anybody that they have passed the debt onto.

Many thanks, and sorry of this is in the wrong place.

GeorgeUK · 29 September 2008 at 11:32AM

1. You are entitled to request a copy of the customer credit agreement at any time. If they are unable to provide it or the agreement does not have all the prescribed terms, then the debt may be unenforcable.
Details: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486
Template: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=11636295#post11636295
(Note that the rules for prescribed terms has changed for agreements signed on and after 6th April 2007)

As for Rankin, it seems that this may have been an exception to the rule.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=13586085#post13586085

Note though that just because a creditor does not have a copy of the CCA, they won't take this to court. This is not a silver bullet approach and you and your friends will need to be very aware of what could happen. I think there is a good chance you will be either threatened with it going to court or it actually goes to court.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=14190337#post14190337

stapeley · 29 September 2008 at 12:25PM

loramos wrote: »

Morning everyone.I recieved this today from one of the Credit card cos.I had prev requested a CCA and recieved a CC application form instead I said this wasn't good enough etc and this is their reply

I refer to your correspondence dated 29 August 2008.
I regret to advise that the card agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the card account has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires.
In the circumstances we appreciate that under Section 78 of the CCA if you decide not to meet your obligations under the card agreement as they fall due we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the debt. However we consider that you should continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind that the agreement isn't void, it remains valid and your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.
Section 78 reference to 'unenforceable' means we are only prevented from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.
Should further assistance be required, please do not hesitate to contact us at the above Office.

Any comments, should I continue with my £1.00 per month payments and if not what are the repercussions?

This is good news . If you are not planning to get a new mortgage or a loan etc in the next 6 years .The fact you are only paying a token amount to this debt will already have a impack on your credit rating . I would presume that would not really be a problem . So its up to you if you want to pay this debt ,after 6 years it comes off your record .

MisterNick · 29 September 2008 at 1:12PM

GeorgeUK wrote: »

1. You are entitled to request a copy of the customer credit agreement at any time. If they are unable to provide it or the agreement does not have all the prescribed terms, then the debt may be unenforcable.
Details: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486
Template: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=11636295#post11636295
(Note that the rules for prescribed terms has changed for agreements signed on and after 6th April 2007)

As for Rankin, it seems that this may have been an exception to the rule.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=13586085#post13586085

Note though that just because a creditor does not have a copy of the CCA, they won't take this to court. This is not a silver bullet approach and you and your friends will need to be very aware of what could happen. I think there is a good chance you will be either threatened with it going to court or it actually goes to court.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=14190337#post14190337

Thanks for the replying quickly.

I have read through the threads you have highlighted and as you say the two things that stand out to me are;
1. this is a minefield
2. Even if the credit card company acknowledge that there is no agreeement they do not void the agreement.

In my first post I said that my advice was not to go to an advisor, but given the complexity of this do you think that was good advice or should they seek some professional help who may be able to advise them?

I see that if you take it to the wire one of the letters says that the details must be removed from the credit scoring agency. In practice do companies inform the agencies of the CCA enquiry?.

Once again, I would point out that they have not defaulted on any payments, nor are they likely to in the near future (they are paying well over the minimum payments) , but the the amount of debt and and number of cards is quite substantial>

GeorgeUK · 29 September 2008 at 1:59PM

The government was so concerned with these "advisors" that they are regulated by the ministry of justice! I would definately not recommend using any of them.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1160673

Most of the regulatory bodies are of the opinion - if you took the money, you should pay it back. You will need to argue your case based on the law, which these companies do all the time if it works in their favour. Either way, you have a legal right to request a copy of your CCA so there shouldn't be any problem with that - it's only after the 12 working days if you stop paying that it will start to get a bit rocky. They may be able to offer "full and final" settlements as a gesture of goodwill, but if they haven't defaulted then i think you'll have a fight on your hands.

blind-as-a-bat_2 · 30 September 2008 at 12:54AM

loramos wrote: »

Morning everyone.I recieved this today from one of the Credit card cos.I had prev requested a CCA and recieved a CC application form instead I said this wasn't good enough etc and this is their reply

I refer to your correspondence dated 29 August 2008.
I regret to advise that the card agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the card account has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires.
In the circumstances we appreciate that under Section 78 of the CCA if you decide not to meet your obligations under the card agreement as they fall due we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the debt. However we consider that you should continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind that the agreement isn't void, it remains valid and your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.
Section 78 reference to 'unenforceable' means we are only prevented from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.
Should further assistance be required, please do not hesitate to contact us at the above Office.

Any comments, should I continue with my £1.00 per month payments and if not what are the repercussions?

Ok this is where the "moral "argument comes into play.

They have no agreemant so have no payment agreemant for you to default on so by rights can not enter anything against you with the CRA's, but they probebly will anyway, thats another issue (and battle)

As for payments all that has happened by them not being able to provide a CCA is, as they state, it has removed there abilaty to chase the debt in court, it also means they cant demand payment, but the can ask nicely.

Whether you pay anything else is up to you.

the "moral "argument says You borrowed the money, but you now have no legal reason to re-pay it but that doesnt mean the debt just disapears. This is the stalemate most failed CCA requests end in, they will either just act as though nothing has changed and keep hounding you, in wich case you will have to report them, but getting anything done is at best hard work, or they may just send letters offering a % discount to pay of the ballence as an "offer" which does not contravine the guidelines

Of course admiting any of the debt may have legal repocusions if they want to play dirty so its hard to advise what to do next. Im in the same position with at least two of mine, one has just gone silent (for now, im sur it wont last)the other is just being as nasty as ever

Bit of a catch 22 the way i see it

Cca Requests Updates Please

Comments

Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

🚀 Getting Started

Categories

Is this how you want to be seen?

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free