Query on Statute barred debts

GeorgeUK · 18 October 2007 at 1:44AM

I have thankfully never had a bad debt, let alone one that was statute barred, but after reading a few threads on this forum, am curious about what can be done about companies trying to get people to pay for them.

If i recall correctly, and please correct me if i am wrong, but almost all debts older than 6 years (6 years from last contact about the debt owed) are statute barred - with a few exceptions i think for property? (Is this longer or exempt?)

I found a post by weller711 that sums up pretty well a letter that you can send if they are not able to supply a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA)
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=6582439&postcount=36

And the initial letter asking for a copy of the CCA
{Edit:I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY to be added at start of letter}
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=4941606&postcount=1

I read details of Statute Barred debts from a link provided by rog2
http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

So, If a debt is over 6 years old and you haven't made a payment towards the debt or acknowledged it, it is statute barred?
If a DCA is unable to produce a CCA, the debt is unenforcable - even if the debt is less than 6 years old?

What i was wondering with regard to sending the letters though, is it safe to send your signature to the Debt Colection Agencies? Or should you just print your name? As not all of them seem entirely honest.

And if you have paid money towards a debt, but they are then unable to produce a CCA - how do you go about claiming back the money you have already paid? Not seen too much evidence of that happening.

(Sorry if this post seems to jump about a bit, but i keep finding new pieces of information)

thanks
George

rog2 · 18 October 2007 at 12:11PM

Hi George - I've just 'lost' my epic reply post, so here goes again :eek: Hope I don't lose it this time.

Statute Barred Debt:

The link, to the National Debtline, that you quote in your post, will give you a fuller, and possibly more legally correct, account of how the Limitation Act, 1980, will affect any debt that you may have. However, an overview, of the implications are as follows:
The Act allows for a certain time (Limitation Period) for creditors/lenders to pursue debt, after which the debt becomes 'barred by statute' or statute barred. The Limitation period differs, depending on the type of debt. For normal consumer debt the period is six years, although in Scotland it is five years, but for certain debts, mainly property-related such as mortgage shortfalls, the legally allowed limitation period is twelve years.
This does not mean that the 'debt' no longer exists, it simply means that the 'debtor' has the final decision as to whether or not to repay the 'debt'.
The Limitation period is defined as a period where the 'debtor' has made no payment towards, nor acknowledged - in writing, the 'debt' during that 'Limitation' period - i.e. in England, Wales and, to the best of my knowledge, Northern Ireland (although it is not the same act) - six years.
With reference to property related debts, and in particular to those relating to mortgage shortfalls, whilst the Limitation Period is, legally, twelve years, the Council of Mortgage Lenders have agreed to, voluntarily, abide by the 'six-year' limitation period, with the proviso that written correspondence, from the creditor to the debtor, will also constitute 'acknowledgement' of the 'debt', whereas, in normal consumer debt, the written acknowledgement MUST be from the 'debtor'.
In order for a 'debtor' to render the 'alleged debt' unenforceable he MUST inform the creditor, or debt collector, that he no longer intends to make any payment towards the 'debt' because the debt is 'statute barred'. The 'debtor' needs give no other reason than that and the debt becomes totally unenforceable through the courts. OFT Debt Collection Guidelines also require Debt Collectors to cease pursuing 'debtors' for debts which are statute barred.

In order to, successfully, avail of the protection afforded by the Limitation Act a 'debtor MUST be absolutely certain that he has made no payment towards, nor acknowledged, in writing, the 'debt' for a period of not less than the Limitation Period in force for that particular debt, or area of jurisdiction.

As I said, the above is a 'simplified' overview - more information can be obtained via the link to http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

Consumer Credit Agreements (CCA)

Hopefully Weller, who is much more experienced with this subject than I am, will come along to give further and more detailed clarification on this subject, but very basically:

Consumer Credit is now regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974, which states that the 'lender/creditor' MUST have a Consumer Credit Agreement, which has been properly signed by the 'debtor' for all Credit Agreements (there are some exceptions for high value 'loans' which are not 'regulated' by the act, but these are 'high-value' i.e. in excess of £25k, and it MUST be pointed out to the 'debtor' that this agreement is 'unregulated' and therefore outside of the scope/protection of the Consumer Credit Act).
A 'debtor' who is being pursued, either by the original lender or by a debt collection agency, has the absolute right to ask for a copy of the original signed consumer credit agreement and the pursuer, whether or not they are the original lender, has a legal obligation to provide that information, as well as a full and detailed statement of all payments towards the 'alleged debt'.
If, after a certain period (12 working days) the creditor/dca is unable to provide that document/information, then the 'agreement' can no longer be enforced, without a court order, and becomes 'irrideemably unenforceable'.
If, after a further period (30 days) the creditor/dca is STILL unable to provide that document/information then they have committed a 'criminal offence' and can, legally, be prosecuted for that.
Either way, the 'debt' becomes unenforceable, without a court order, after the initial 12 days. After the further 30 days then it is most unlikely that ANY court would grant an order to make the agreement enforceable.

So, both the Limitation Act, 1980 AND the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 afford a lot of right, and protection, to 'debtors'. Which is the most appropriate will depend on the individual circumstances of the 'alleged debt'.

Hope that helps, George.

GeorgeUK · 18 October 2007 at 12:59PM

Many thanks Rog.

Your post clarifies alot of my "assumptions" and spells out timescales and limitations. Thanks for taking the time to do that (twice

)

Must admit i was quite shocked to read some of the posts from those that have to deal with DCA's and the tactics that they use. That's why i was wondering about sending them a copy of your signature and if it would be safe to do so (I think there was a post by Immoral_AngelUK that mentioned something about this - not sure now).

Also, if the worst of the offenders are concentrating on statute barred debts that don't have a CCA, can we force them out of business by reclaiming any payments made? (And is this limited to 6 years? - as the "debt" was not legally recoverable to begin with??)

I hadn't seen much about recovering debts - just that paragraph in weller's post. If it is recoverable, can we harrass those agencies and send in the bailiffs?

:rotfl:

EDIT: Another helpful post by Weller711 - a true CCA must have this information

rog2 · 18 October 2007 at 1:12PM

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Also, if the worst of the offenders are concentrating on statute barred debts that don't have a CCA, can we force them out of business by reclaiming any payments made? (And is this limited to 6 years? - as the "debt" was not legally recoverable to begin with??)

I hadn't seen much about recovering debts - just that paragraph in weller's post. If it is recoverable, can we harrass those agencies and send in the bailiffs? :rotfl:

I know that Weller has, successfully, claimed back money, from a dca, that had been co-erced out of her, for a 'debt that was irrideemably unenforceable. Hopefully she will be able to further enlighten us.

It IS tempting to take action against some of the more 'aggressive' debt collection agencies, and I am sure that many people have, successfully done so. It is also worth remembering that a 'Debt Collection Agency' will have its licence revoked if there are any unpaid CCJ's against it.
So tempting yes, although we would have to be 100% sure of our facts, otherwise we would, effectively, be bringing ourselves down to the same level as these 'low-life' vultures are, so it's usually best to complain through the official channels, such as Trading Standards, Financial Services Association or the Financial Ombudsman, in the hope that they will mete out the appropriate punishment.

Mind you I, personally, would not hesitate to take legal action against certain dcas, providing I had the necessary evidence.

wazza24 · 18 October 2007 at 1:36PM

Hi All, Rog2 was wondering if ya knew when the 12 days start is it from the date you send it or the date they receive the request?

ps: could ya also check out the link to thread below and leave some advice.....would be greatly appreciated :beer:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=567513

rog2 · 18 October 2007 at 1:45PM

wazza24 wrote: »

Hi All, Rog2 was wondering if ya knew when the 12 days start is it from the date you send it or the date they receive the request?

It is 12 WORKING days (so allow 12+2) from receipt of the letter. ALL letters should be sent recorded so that you have a record of when they are received. In saying that, however, the law allows for you to 'assume' that a letter has been received, two days after posting (but to be on the safe side use 'Signed For' services or, at the least, get a certificate of posting).

moonlightpjs · 23 October 2007 at 7:26PM

rog2 wrote: »

I know that Weller has, successfully, claimed back money, from a dca, that had been co-erced out of her, for a 'debt that was irrideemably unenforceable. Hopefully she will be able to further enlighten us.

It IS tempting to take action against some of the more 'aggressive' debt collection agencies, and I am sure that many people have, successfully done so. It is also worth remembering that a 'Debt Collection Agency' will have its licence revoked if there are any unpaid CCJ's against it.
So tempting yes, although we would have to be 100% sure of our facts, otherwise we would, effectively, be bringing ourselves down to the same level as these 'low-life' vultures are, so it's usually best to complain through the official channels, such as Trading Standards, Financial Services Association or the Financial Ombudsman, in the hope that they will mete out the appropriate punishment.

Mind you I, personally, would not hesitate to take legal action against certain dcas, providing I had the necessary evidence.

Hi, if this helps at all
I have successfully claimed back monies from 3 DCA's and am in the process of claiming more - 2 were catalogue debts which are quite easy to dispute as they more often than not, do not get you to sign a true CCA and the 3rd was a credit card. All I signed was an application form - so again not a true CCA.

The DCA's that were dealing with the catalogue debts were quite easy to deal with, once they had committed an offence by not providing the CCA, I only had to contact Trading Standards and within approx 2 weeks they repaid all the money I had paid to the DCA (not the original creditor) - one of them even paid the 8% interest that I requested.

Regarding the credit card debt I had to take it further by reporting them to the OFT - this DCA was fined £3700 for not adherring to the Consumer Credit Agreement and Debt Collection guidelines - they had bought a unenforceable debt from the credit card company. I am still waiting to hear if the original creditor is going to be forced to repay all the payments I made which would be good but my main concern was the DCA's. The OFT informed me that should the DCA fail to pay the fine within a certain amount of time, then legal action would be taken against them in the form of a CCJ- which if then went unpaid their credit licence would be revoked.I suppose baliffs would be an option but I was not advised of this as it was, in effect, out of my hands.

So, yes, I would take it all the way. I will, and am, paying all debts that have supplied a true CCA (2 at the moment

) and all the others are in the process so to speak (CCA requests).

I have no problem in taking action against the DCA's as they had (or said) that they would have no problem in taking legal action against me. They hounded and threatened me and left me a nervous wreck. But it can be a long road to follow and if you threaten them with further action, ie reporting them, then you must do so or the whole process, in my mind, seems pointless. The DCA's will only learn that their actions will not be tolerated if we carry out our promises (threats? though I do not like that word) that we will report them.

RAS · 23 October 2007 at 7:35PM

thanks weller

Number of times that people have not been sent the CCA, it amazing.

moonlightpjs · 23 October 2007 at 7:38PM

Most debt that were taken out prior to 2004 will not have a true CCA, that said, there are still companies that do require you to sign a true CCA, it beggers belief IMO but I suppose it will still go on :rolleyes:

moonlightpjs · 23 October 2007 at 7:43PM

GeorgeUK wrote: »

And the initial letter asking for a copy of the CCA
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=4941606&postcount=1

Please people, if you are sending a CCA request as above please add in this sentence at the top of the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

Sorry, *creeps away now*

GeorgeUK · 23 October 2007 at 9:18PM

Ummm, just a thought, but should that not read
I DO NOT...

Thanks for pointing that out weller. I thought i had checked that before i posted the link

Query on Statute barred debts

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