Query on Statute barred debts

moonlightpjs

Edited for you now George It wasn't your fault, somebody just forgot to add it in - easy mistake to make.....................but important its included

rog2

weller711 wrote: »

Hi, if this helps at all
I have successfully claimed back monies from 3 DCA's and am in the process of claiming more - 2 were catalogue debts which are quite easy to dispute as they more often than not, do not get you to sign a true CCA and the 3rd was a credit card. All I signed was an application form - so again not a true CCA.

The DCA's that were dealing with the catalogue debts were quite easy to deal with, once they had committed an offence by not providing the CCA, I only had to contact Trading Standards and within approx 2 weeks they repaid all the money I had paid to the DCA (not the original creditor) - one of them even paid the 8% interest that I requested.

I have no problem in taking action against the DCA's as they had (or said) that they would have no problem in taking legal action against me. They hounded and threatened me and left me a nervous wreck. But it can be a long road to follow and if you threaten them with further action, ie reporting them, then you must do so or the whole process, in my mind, seems pointless. The DCA's will only learn that their actions will not be tolerated if we carry out our promises (threats? though I do not like that word) that we will report them.

Weller - you truly are an inspiration to us mere mortals. :T :T :T

Halifax_sux

weller711 wrote: »

Most debt that were taken out prior to 2004 will not have a true CCA, that said, there are still companies that do require you to sign a true CCA

if i'm reading this correctly, you would seem to be saying that most debts that were taken out prior to 2004 will not actually be enforceable. do you really mean to imply that weller?

rog2

Halifax_sux wrote: »

if i'm reading this correctly, you would seem to be saying that most debts that were taken out prior to 2004 will not actually be enforceable. do you really mean to imply that weller?

I can not, of course, answer for weller - However, I think that you may be slightly mis-interpreting her statement.
Nobody is implying that most debts taken out prior to 2004 are un-enforceable as such. That would be akin to promoting 'debt avoidance' which is not the aim of this forum - we actively encourage posters to 'deal with their debts' using the means most suitable to their individual situation.
Speaking for myself, I would advocate the request of a true copy of the original signed cca for 'any' alleged consumer debt which I am unsure of, especially when/if that 'debt' is being chased by a debt collection agency who have failed to provide full details, including an up to date statement, of any alleged debt that they are pursuing.
The provision of a true copy of the original signed consumer credit account will enable the alleged debtor to deal with the alleged debt in the most suitable manner - it will, also, highlight the 'status' of the 'debt' and whether or not the 'debt' is enforceable. Armed with this information, the debtor can be more selective in his options for dealing with the debt - whether to refuse to pay as the 'debt' is legally unenforceable, to make an offer of payments by instalments, reduced 'full and final settlement' offer or whatever.
The Consumer Credit Act has been around for over 30 years, and sets out a framework which offers protection to both creditors and debtors, providing that both sides adhere to that framework.
Quite honestly if a creditor has knowingly gone ahead with a credit arrangement,without first issuing a consumer credit agreement that complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act, in the interest of quick profit, then that creditor has only himself to blame if, several years later, the lack of an enforceable consumer credit agreement backfires on him.

lids_2001

I have a Managed Loan with HSBC for £29060, this is over the 25k CCA limit. They have just provided me with a signed copy of the agreement dated 3/4/2006. It does not state in any of their waffle that this loan is not regulated by the CCA, does this mean they have done something wrong? If so do I have any comeback? This currently in dispute, so any advice would be very useful. thanks

rog2

lids_2001 wrote: »

I have a Managed Loan with HSBC for £29060, this is over the 25k CCA limit. They have just provided me with a signed copy of the agreement dated 3/4/2006. It does not state in any of their waffle that this loan is not regulated by the CCA, does this mean they have done something wrong? If so do I have any comeback? This currently in dispute, so any advice would be very useful. thanks

I too fell foul of the 25k limit - but they should have informed you that the loan was unregulated, when you took it out.
HSBC 'Managed Loans' are notorious on this board.
Was the initial loan for £29,060 - or is that the current balance?

lids_2001

the initial loan was for £29060, and i was never told it wasn't covered.

rog2

lids_2001 wrote: »

the initial loan was for £29060, and i was never told it wasn't covered.

They were legally obliged to inform you that the 'loan' was not covered by the Consumer Credit Act, and it should be clearly stated on the application form that you signed.
If it was not mentioned, you could have a case for claiming that you were 'mis-sold' the loan - if so, this is not my strong-point, but there will be someone here who can help you.
May I suggest that you start a 'New Thread' asking 'HSBC Managed Loan Advice' and I'm sure that someone will be able to help you.
I will, also have a read up on the subject.

Halifax_sux

rog2 wrote: »

A 'debtor' who is being pursued, either by the original lender or by a debt collection agency, has the absolute right to ask for a copy of the original signed consumer credit agreement and the pursuer, whether or not they are the original lender, has a legal obligation to provide that information, as well as a full and detailed statement of all payments towards the 'alleged debt'.

does this "legal obligation to provide ... full and detailed statement of all payments" also apply to payments made under a CCJ?

rog2 wrote: »

If, after a certain period (12 working days) the creditor/dca is unable to provide that document/information, then the 'agreement' can no longer be enforced, without a court order, and becomes 'irrideemably unenforceable'.
If, after a further period (30 days) the creditor/dca is STILL unable to provide that document/information then they have committed a 'criminal offence' and can, legally, be prosecuted for that.
Either way, the 'debt' becomes unenforceable, without a court order, after the initial 12 days. After the further 30 days then it is most unlikely that ANY court would grant an order to make the agreement enforceable.

please clarify.
first we have "12 working days" (plus the extra 2).
then we have "a further period (30 days)". is that also working days?
one of the second letters specifically mentions a further period of a "calendar month".

also, "the 'agreement' can no longer be enforced, without a court order" (this is after the first 12+2 days). if it's unenforceable then how (why?) would a court want to enforce it?
seems a bit like them saying 'sod the evidence. i'm bored. let's go outside and hang him'.

rog2

Halifax_sux wrote: »

does this "legal obligation to provide ... full and detailed statement of all payments" also apply to payments made under a CCJ?

If a CCJ has already been issued, then the matter is outside of the sphere of the Consumer Credit Act, unless of course you are contesting the judgement and are applying, or have applied, to have the judgement set aside.


please clarify.
first we have "12 working days" (plus the extra 2).
then we have "a further period (30 days)". is that also working days?
one of the second letters specifically mentions a further period of a "calendar month".

For the 'second period' I have always used 'calendar days' - perhaps weller could clarify?

also, "the 'agreement' can no longer be enforced, without a court order" (this is after the first 12+2 days). if it's unenforceable then how (why?) would a court want to enforce it?

In order for the Court to declare that the 'agreement' is unenforceable, they would need to be aware, through your defence, that you have requested a true copy of the original consumer credit agreement, and that the creditor, or dca, were unable to provide you with one, within the legally allowed time span.

What often happens is thatcreditors/dcas will 'rush' a claim through the Northampton 'Bulk Handling' Court. Although a 'summons' is sent to the alleged debtor, that person is often totally unaware of his rights and, often, unaware that he has not only the right to put in his 'defence' that the cca was never provided, but that he can ask for the case to be moved to a local court, in order that he may put forward his 'defence' in question. If the Court is unaware that a cca has been requested, that Court will not ask the claimant if the 'alleged debt' is legally enforceable - it will 'assume', in the lack of a credible defence, that the 'debt' is being legally claimed, and will award judgement accordingly.

seems a bit like them saying 'sod the evidence. i'm bored. let's go outside and hang him'.

It does seem like that - I agree.

Sorry that the above answer is 'general', H_s. Perhaps if you post some more details, we can be more specific.