Cca Requests Updates Please

blind-as-a-bat_2

missljm wrote: »

Hi, looking for some advice with regards the CCA requests. I sent both letters off and have received nothing back and was specific in each letter that all correspondence had to be in writing. The DCA has not stopped calling my house. I did answer one night and refused to give my details over the phone and said that I will not discuss anything over the phone it must be in writing. The chap on the other end of the phone said they have written to me (I have received nothing from them). I really need to know what my next step should be as surely if they cannot produce the CCA then they cannot harass me for payment?

They "should" not, but they do, but until they provide a CCA you have nothing more to discuss with them really, and the "The chap on the other end of the phone said they have written to me" bit is a cop out, i doubt they have, but just reply "re-send it then cos it never arrived"

If they get snotty about it and say your lying advise them to send it recorded to prove it gets to you;)

missljm

Thank you, I'll do as you say and see how I get on.

stapeley

Cabot continue to ring , I refuse to confirm security questions . If they have purchased the account from OC , the terms of the CC ACT have been broken . I did a CCA request to another DCA who sent it back to OC. I will not send in a complaint because this new DCA do not seem to have a correct address for me .

asn_2

Further to my CCA request and the 12+30 days letter I received a letter from the OC stating they could not produce the CCA. I then a letter from their solictors who did not respond after I sent them a letter infoming them about my CCA request default. Then I received a letter from the OC reiterating that there was no CCA and that as I was making payments they debt is recorded correctly. I responded with a write off and stop processsing data letter to which I now have a final response from the OC which is as follows:

They have sent me a copy of additonal card holder request for a different card number signed by me and some other correspondence regarding some issues regarding that same different card number. Hence they state that my assertion that I do not recogonise the debt contradicts previous correspondence and that I have reveived the benefits of the credit card accounts credit limit and was making repayments.

They go on to say that they are satisfied that no dispute exists and that I can refer the matter to FOS, but FOS are no legal experts and aim to settle disputes informally and not necessarily lawfully. I have 6 months in which I can escalate this to the FOS.

Can you please recomend what actions I can take at this stage?

stapeley

Just write stating that what they have sent has no relevance to your request for a true signed copy of a consumer credit agreement for ( their reference for account in dispute ). They are trying to bamboozle you . If they have no copy of a CCA a court can not enforce it , and the company would be very unlikely to take it to court .

asn_2

stapeley wrote: »

Just write stating that what they have sent has no relevance to your request for a true signed copy of a consumer credit agreement for ( their reference for account in dispute ). They are trying to bamboozle you . If they have no copy of a CCA a court can not enforce it , and the company would be very unlikely to take it to court .

I have put together the following letter. Does it look fine?

From: <dated>
me

To,
The Bank

DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974
FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT

Your Reference: BLAH BLAH

Subject: Re: Account/Reference Number BLAH BLAH

Dear Sir/Madam

I am in receipt of your most recent letter dated XX the contents of which have been noted. Your response has no relevance to my original request which has been reiterated below.

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery (Royal mail Reference XXXXXXXXX) on XX asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a payment of £1.00 as postal order which represents the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. This letter was delivered and signed for on XX.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

As such the account has been in default since the XX and a default notice was sent to you on the XX and this default continues until such time you are able to produce the agreement as requested. I am not obliged to and hence will not make any further payments to the alleged account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the Consumer Credit Act request expiring (XX).

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defense at law.

I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

To clarify s61(1) states
(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—
1. Number of repayments;
2. Amount of repayments;
3. Frequency and timing of repayments;
4. Dates of repayments;
5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Furthermore under the ruling of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 the court of appeal confirmed that the prescribed terms referred to above must be contained within the agreement itself and not in a separate document

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the various pieces of case law and legislation quoted this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 as well as a breach of a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

If Bank continues pursuit of the alleged debt or attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities as I deem fit including possible court action.

I trust this out lines the situation.

Thanking you,

Yours faithfully,

me

bathgatebuyer

That's a cracking letter! Definitely one for me to file.

Incidentally, I've amended my original complaint to the FOS about Sainsburys failing to supply a CCA containing the required terms and conditions (instead relying on a printout of the current terms and conditions with a copy of the application form) to include PPI matters as the timescale for PPI for me runs out in Nov 08.

I had hoped that the CCA matter would have been considered by now, but given the length of time involved to get an adjudicator, I've had to incorporate the PPI issue into the original complaint rather than do one after the other.

Hopefully they agree with the OFT that what Sainsburys have been doing is unlawful.

Slipperyslope_2

Wrote to the awful HFO requesting copy of CCA etc - my letter was sent 15/09/08 (recorded) and have yet to receive a reply.

Although, will add that their letters were terrible and the primary reason for my asking for a copy of the CCA was that the credit limit on my old Barclaycard was £400, and these jokers were demanding payment for a debt of £1150.

blind-as-a-bat_2

Seems OK to me asn, i think you have cvered everything that needs to be said, how much good it will do is a differant matter, but if you dont give it a go you will never know so its worth a shot;)

Bazza66

Did the send CCA request to Lowell-life and eventually they came back with nothing (suprised?). So after the 30 days sent them the 30 days letter i.e. return all payments, removed from credit file etc etc. They replied with the exact same letter they sent 2 days before the 30 days ran out i.e. that they could not find the CCA and the file is closed unless they find it. This is what I indend to send back. I would be grateful if anyone could cast an eye over it?



Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Reference Number xxxxxxxx


I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

I would like to make a complaint against your company. The details are set out below.

I refer to my letter dated 15th September 2008 which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on 16th September 2008 in which I asked the following :

1. All payments made to date to Lowell Financial for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

2. Removal of all defaults entered by Lowell Financial. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. Compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.


You were given 14 days to comply with the above yet you have failed to acknowledge the letter or attempt to resolve all of the requests.

I understand that you must send a written acknowledgement of my complaint within 5 business days of its receipt. If you are unable to resolve my complaint within 4 weeks you must send a holding response, explaining the reasons why and indicating when you will make further contact.

If you fail to resolve my complaint within 8 weeks, or if matters are not settled to my satisfaction, I will have no alternative but to escalate my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

This could result in you being ordered to pay compensation if my complaint is upheld.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

Mr N E One