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Cca Requests Updates Please

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  • bathgatebuyer
    bathgatebuyer Posts: 2,522 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    MrBlueSky wrote: »
    Dear Blind as a Bat

    Am I to undestand that if a DCA fails to produce ANY supporting paperwork and through fear and ignorance payments were made to them (i.e. DCA), it's not advisable to pursue it? I'd be pleased to have your answer before I instruct Scottish Solicitors!) :rotfl:

    Thanks very much

    Absolutely! Have a look at the The Office of Fair Trading Guidance Note on Debt Collection which shows what edbt collectors cannot do and what is deemed to be unfair practice (I think you'll recognise this as Mackenzie Hall's standard business practice!) :p

    http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf
    Almost debt-free, but certainly even with the Banks!
  • blind-as-a-bat_2
    blind-as-a-bat_2 Posts: 4,304 Forumite
    MrBlueSky wrote: »
    Page 37 post number 726 may reveal the background (I lurk a lot and that was my first proper post).

    I am English, living in South Wales and the DCA is the wonderful Mackenzie Hall. I've spoken to a firm of Solicitors in Scotland and can send them copies of all paperwork and they can let me know if they would act for me as I want to put in a Small Money Claim in the Sheriff's Court (I have done a bit of Googling). I strongly believe they obtained our money fraudulently and by deception (nearly £1,000).

    I'm just so thankful for everyone that contributes to this site - if I hadn't requested the CCA I'd have carried on paying and we really don't know if the debt was my OH's anyway!

    Thanks again (no icon's as I know they're not working)

    Yes was just reading it lol

    If it was passed back to the OC i personaly would take that as they had no right to demand payment in the first place so personaly would agree with you argument but, there is always a but, im not sure under what legaslation you could recover your money

    So taking your post as read, your OH has no certain recolection of owing any debt to RBS so i would be inclined too SAR them (subject accsess request) it cost £10 to do so

    Under the DPA this forces them (in theory) to forward all records (or what you ask for) that they hold on you including statemants regarding accounts, agreemants etc thus at least that puts them to proof of there claim to 4k, again in theory.

    Again im assuming there is no differance in scotish law in this as i do not know for sure but have a feeling there is non as RBS is trading across borders as it where

    As i said the CCA act was not designed for your problem as far as i understand it, but if they have obtained money under false pretences one could say they have commited fraud, but i would seek legal advice before going down that route
    Thats it, i am done, Blind-as-a-Bat has left the forum, for good this time, there is no way I can recover this account, as the password was random, and not recorded, and the email used no longer exits, nor can be recovered to recover the account, goodbye all …………. :(
  • MrBlueSky_4
    MrBlueSky_4 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Dear Blind-as-a-Bat (and all)

    Excellent idea to SAR RBS, my only concern is what information I will need to provide them with in order for them to execute the request?

    OH moved a few times between 2002-2004. Could I just give them name and current address and see what they come back with? If we do owe, we'd be happy just to sort it out to be honest.

    Previous SAR to FirstPlus (yeah, it just get's better doesn't it!?) was easy as paperwork was already being sent here (joint debt with EX he thought had been settled with divorce).

    Thanks very much and Happy Sunday! :rotfl:
  • MrBlueSky_4
    MrBlueSky_4 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Sorry to be a bit dull regarding SAR, just Googled it and will send letter as indicated on

    http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

    (Oh, I do hope that works - I've never added a link before!)

    It's getting late and I'm not functioning properly :rolleyes:
  • blind-as-a-bat_2
    blind-as-a-bat_2 Posts: 4,304 Forumite
    As far as i can see its the name, and account number, that matters not the address as that is not relavent

    If they do say anything quoting data protection just point out they had no problem sending demands for payment to your OH at your presant address wink.gif
    Thats it, i am done, Blind-as-a-Bat has left the forum, for good this time, there is no way I can recover this account, as the password was random, and not recorded, and the email used no longer exits, nor can be recovered to recover the account, goodbye all …………. :(
  • blind-as-a-bat_2
    blind-as-a-bat_2 Posts: 4,304 Forumite
    MrBlueSky wrote: »
    Sorry to be a bit dull regarding SAR, just Googled it and will send letter as indicated on

    http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

    (Oh, I do hope that works - I've never added a link before!)

    It's getting late and I'm not functioning properly :rolleyes:

    Its a bit basic is that one, it would probebly be enough but i will have search and try post a better one tommorow
    Thats it, i am done, Blind-as-a-Bat has left the forum, for good this time, there is no way I can recover this account, as the password was random, and not recorded, and the email used no longer exits, nor can be recovered to recover the account, goodbye all …………. :(
  • terriS
    terriS Posts: 48 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Hi there
    I have gone through all the official protocol according to the CCA regs on this wonderful site:money: , my last letter to Marlins solicitors was back in May 2008 stating that they had not met the requirements supplying the CCA therefore now an unenforceable debt etc etc.
    Then i got a letter from them yesturday dated 10th September 2008:

    "We refer to the above matter and in particular to your defence dated 28th March 2008 (They served court papers which i defended online to the court saying that they had failed to provide the CCA)
    Please find enclosed the copy statements which substantiate the balanced claimed. The credit agreement to which this claim relates is no longer available because the agreement dates back over 14 years. Please therefore check your records and confirm in writing that you do not have this document in your possession.:rolleyes:
    Please note that as per Paragraph 16 of the Judgement granted by His Honourable Judge Simon Brown QC in the High Court Case of 'Rankine-v-Various'/Case No;8BM40009-13m, the court ruled that where a creditor 'is seeking enforcement, section 78(6) of the Act does not have effect....Firstly, the prohibition is against a creditor "under an agreement". The agreement was at an end. Therefore there is no reason why there cannot be an enforcement. Secondly, the word "enforce" is not descriptive of the commencement of proceedings. Bringing proceedings during a time when the agreement has been brought to an end is only a step taken with a view to enforcement...'
    Under this case law, s77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the subsequent reliance on section 78 does not apply as the agreement had already been terminated and was therefore at an end. Our client is therefore not prohibited from proceeding with the claim.
    Please therefore confirm whether you are willing to enter into settlement negotiations. Please note that if we do not receive a satisfactory response from you, we are instructed to proceed with the claim without further reference, incurring further costs and interest for which you may be held liable"

    Im not worried about the copies of statements as i am not disputing using the CC. I am disputing Marlin's ownership of the debt by demanding to see my original CCA. So my question is are they trying to blind me with all the above or are they exempt because the debt is 14 years old, and the agreement was at an end??:confused: Do i need to respond to them?

    Any advice would be great.... thank you
  • blind-as-a-bat_2
    blind-as-a-bat_2 Posts: 4,304 Forumite
    terriS wrote: »
    Hi there
    I have gone through all the official protocol according to the CCA regs on this wonderful site:money: , my last letter to Marlins solicitors was back in May 2008 stating that they had not met the requirements supplying the CCA therefore now an unenforceable debt etc etc.
    Then i got a letter from them yesturday dated 10th September 2008:

    "We refer to the above matter and in particular to your defence dated 28th March 2008 (They served court papers which i defended online to the court saying that they had failed to provide the CCA)
    Please find enclosed the copy statements which substantiate the balanced claimed. The credit agreement to which this claim relates is no longer available because the agreement dates back over 14 years. Please therefore check your records and confirm in writing that you do not have this document in your possession.:rolleyes:
    Please note that as per Paragraph 16 of the Judgement granted by His Honourable Judge Simon Brown QC in the High Court Case of 'Rankine-v-Various'/Case No;8BM40009-13m, the court ruled that where a creditor 'is seeking enforcement, section 78(6) of the Act does not have effect....Firstly, the prohibition is against a creditor "under an agreement". The agreement was at an end. Therefore there is no reason why there cannot be an enforcement. Secondly, the word "enforce" is not descriptive of the commencement of proceedings. Bringing proceedings during a time when the agreement has been brought to an end is only a step taken with a view to enforcement...'
    Under this case law, s77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the subsequent reliance on section 78 does not apply as the agreement had already been terminated and was therefore at an end. Our client is therefore not prohibited from proceeding with the claim.
    Please therefore confirm whether you are willing to enter into settlement negotiations. Please note that if we do not receive a satisfactory response from you, we are instructed to proceed with the claim without further reference, incurring further costs and interest for which you may be held liable"

    Im not worried about the copies of statements as i am not disputing using the CC. I am disputing Marlin's ownership of the debt by demanding to see my original CCA. So my question is are they trying to blind me with all the above or are they exempt because the debt is 14 years old, and the agreement was at an end??:confused: Do i need to respond to them?

    Any advice would be great.... thank you

    Yes, also asking you if you have a a copy is a cheap trick, if you say you havnt when you have then you would be lying to the court as well as Marlins.

    The question of ownership is a good one, and is something im trying to get a confirmation on, that is that without an agreemant the Oc cant issue a default nor asign it so in theory at least the origanal or certified copy would have to be produced to prove the OC had the right to assign it

    And any way
    Taken from Sir Andrew Morrits Judgment in the Court of Appeal in the Wilson & First Counties Trust case :

    “In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift,of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;”

    Was made in a higher court, the court of apeal so i believe takes president over ther Rankin case anyway

    If you have a look on CAG you will see Marlin are trying this with quite a few, but to date have always backed down when challenged as far as i have seen
    Thats it, i am done, Blind-as-a-Bat has left the forum, for good this time, there is no way I can recover this account, as the password was random, and not recorded, and the email used no longer exits, nor can be recovered to recover the account, goodbye all …………. :(
  • loramos
    loramos Posts: 19 Forumite
    Morning everyone.A recap ,update and help sought.On 5/8/08 I sent 10 cca request complete with postal orders.19/8/08 sent 12+2 letter. SEVEN never replied ONE denied they had the account Egg sent an unreadable CCA +T&C in da different type face and RBS sent a letter dated 19/8/08 enclosing copy of CC application due to be recieved June 2001 BUT dated by me June 2002.ALL the postal orders were kept. Do I send them the 30 day letter on 19th Septemeber or is this not neccessary?Has there been a change in the law , all my cards were taken out in pre 2006.Do I continue to pay my £1 a month to the card companies ( I have never agreed any payments with DCA's. Sorry this is a bit long winded, thought I had it licked but now worried and confused again.
  • stapeley
    stapeley Posts: 2,315 Forumite
    I would say its good news . After the 12+2 the accounts are in dispute . Send off the 30 day letter now . Keep all records . I would stop any payments now as accounts are in dispute , they could argue by paying £ 1 you acknowlegde the debt . Plus any debt become statue barred after 6 years , so best start the timer now . Remember IF they have no CCA it does not go away , so you will still have them chasing you . I have started leaving any DCA that calls on hold while i put the hoover on !
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