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The SayNoTo0870 Article Discussion Area
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Last month Ofcom released an update which puts the article out of date. The MSE article currently says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSE article
All this is great news, but the proposals have been in place for a while, and were expected to come into effect in Feb 08, sadly this has now been moved to Autumn 08.
Here is (IMO) the most relevant section, in which the Autumn 2008 date is moved back yet again and they only promise to publish a "further statement" by the end of the year and don't even have a date at which they will implement anything:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofcom
At the time, Ofcom aimed to announce its conclusions on this by autumn 2008.
However, Ofcom’s work on this consultation needs to take place alongside an ongoing dispute on wholesale termination rates, the rates that operators charge each other to end 0870 calls on each others’ networks. Work on this had been suspended pending the recent judgement of the Competition Appeals Tribunal on mobile termination rate disputes which was published recently, and as a result this work has now restarted.
Ofcom continues to assess the proposals in its May 2008 consultation and the responses to that document in light of these developments. Ofcom aims to publish a further statement on implementing any changes to 0870 policy by the end of the year.
They never cease to disappoint. When will 0870 ripoffs end?
Last edited by philandstuff; 13-11-2008 at 12:34 PM..
Reason: clarify quote attributions
If you are not in a rush, most firms will have an email address e.g. Water frims, TV licencing etc. If you already subscribe and are connected to the internet, this is the cheapest alternative.
Move your bank and any other service to firms that don't use 0870 numbers e.g. my ISP does not and uses a normal UK number so does my building society.
But most important when you do move your service or account clearly state that the reason you are doing so is because of the unacceptable use of 0870.
Ofcom is the most useless quango ever created in the history of the UK. A total waste of tax payers money I hope the next government will replace it - but then all governments earn billions from the telecom industry. A lot of these costs are directly linked to the billions the governments earned selling 3G licences.
What also annoys me is that now all the doctors' surgeries I know of have 0845 numbers which cost more than a local call and are also not included in my free calls package. There is a connection charge with these numbers plus a per minute charge, so a 1minute 35 second call costs me 9p. Not a lot, but still 9p more than I would have paid had the practice issued a geographic number.
My practice claims that they don't get any kick backs from the company that provides their "service". However on their service provider's own web site (Network Europe Group - NEG) they claim "With your own 084 number, you keep about 2p from every call.". They also provide the telephone equipment and call routing. So the practice does benefit financially from the deal.
People will claim that 0845 and 0870 numbers no more expensive than a local or national call, but they are, particularly if you have a package that includes free calls.
It is also claimed that the call routing is more efficient "because you get put through to the right person". This may be so in some cases, but in my practice you always get the same receptionist!
What also annoys me is that now all the doctors' surgeries I know of have 0845 numbers which cost more than a local call and are also not included in my free calls package. There is a connection charge with these numbers plus a per minute charge, so a 1minute 35 second call costs me 9p. Not a lot, but still 9p more than I would have paid had the practice issued a geographic number.
My practice claims that they don't get any kick backs from the company that provides their "service". However on their service provider's own web site (Network Europe Group - NEG) they claim "With your own 084 number, you keep about 2p from every call.". They also provide the telephone equipment and call routing. So the practice does benefit financially from the deal.
People will claim that 0845 and 0870 numbers no more expensive than a local or national call, but they are, particularly if you have a package that includes free calls.
It is also claimed that the call routing is more efficient "because you get put through to the right person". This may be so in some cases, but in my practice you always get the same receptionist!
Most doctors surgeries that have this kind of number use 0844, (not 0845), and from a BT line cost 5p per minute at all times, therefore your 1 minute and 35 seconds will cost you a 7p connection fee plus 10p, (I think they now charge in full minutes?). = 17 pence, not 9p.
Just another example of R.I P. (Rip Off Britain).
Don`t steal - the Government doesn`t like the competition
I've got an ADT alarm system which every night 'calls' the receiving centre to ensure there is communication between systems. It calls an 0870 number though!!! Even though it is for like a 1 second call it charges me the BT connection charge (6p?) every day! This adds up!!!
I've got an ADT alarm system which every night 'calls' the receiving centre to ensure there is communication between systems. It calls an 0870 number though!!! Even though it is for like a 1 second call it charges me the BT connection charge (6p?) every day! This adds up!!!
They charge your for the system (and an annual fee?) and then they take a cut of the call charges you have to pay because they've programmed your alarm to call them every day.
Nice little earner!
BT residential landline? Click HERE to see my '6 steps to reducing costs' (last updated 14-October-2009). Read the full MSE article too though - it's a money-saving read.
You can ask your local service engineer to set up your system so that it does not phone ADT every day. A friend tipped us off on this (an ex. ADT engineer) and we have our system set up this way. I grudge giving them money on a daily basis when we pay a fortune each month. It makes no difference to the way our alarm operates.
Good luck.
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I think this 0870 0845 so on charges are not on, as its even DWP as well, how can this be helping the low income and disabiled familys. BT introduced options to lower bills now bills have now in creased because of these over used, high priced numbers
I have started to call my RBS direct banking service using an 0131 number instead of 0845 after reading about 'say no to 0870' on this site. I get through all the security measures OK but when I get through to a representative they pretend they cannot hear me! I tried it 3 times and each time they kept saying 'hello' as though I could not be heard. On the 4th occasion I dialled the 0845 number and they had no problem hearing me. Surely this is sharp practice?
I have started to call my RBS direct banking service using an 0131 number instead of 0845 after reading about 'say no to 0870' on this site. I get through all the security measures OK but when I get through to a representative they pretend they cannot hear me! I tried it 3 times and each time they kept saying 'hello' as though I could not be heard. On the 4th occasion I dialled the 0845 number and they had no problem hearing me. Surely this is sharp practice?
This is strange. When you ring in it would normally go to a switchboard / an office without them knowing which number you called. (0845/0870 numbers do not exist in their own right, they are diverted to a geographical number).
The green underfoot is either green shoots or weeds
I don't know if this has been mentioned (sorry - can't read all posts in this thread!), but where SayNo hasn't a number I go to the relevant web site and have a poke around.
Contributions Agency and Nationwide BS have numbers for overseas callers and they're 01... etc.
Dept of Health has just launched a consultation on whether GPs should use 084 phone numbers which increase costs for people with inclusive phone deals. Do get in quick to respond - remember this will not take money from NHS services but may reduce the amount of profits that GPs take from the money they get from Government. Government money is intended to cover costs of running GP services, but the 084 nos take extra subsidy from patients indirectly. The publicity genetrated may also rub off on others indirectly subsidising themselves from service users this way. Survey is at:- http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultation...ions/DH_091879
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Dept of Health has just launched a consultation on whether GPs should use 084 phone numbers which increase costs for people with inclusive phone deals. Do get in quick to respond - remember this will not take money from NHS services but may reduce the amount of profits that GPs take from the money they get from Government. Government money is intended to cover costs of running GP services, but the 084 nos take extra subsidy from patients indirectly. The publicity genetrated may also rub off on others indirectly subsidising themselves from service users this way. Survey is at:- http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultation...ions/DH_091879
Well as consumers I cannot see anybody voting for the retention of the 084 numbers. The way the consultation is phrased it suggests it is a "done deal" anyway.
The article says that the surgeries do not make a profit from using these numbers, but just offsets the costs. Any organisation has to pay their phone costs, maybe as it is the NHS they can be VAT exempt.
I hope when this charge is abolished it will also apply to NHS Direct.
The green underfoot is either green shoots or weeds
Dept of Health has just launched a consultation on whether GPs should use 084 phone numbers which increase costs for people with inclusive phone deals. Do get in quick to respond - remember this will not take money from NHS services but may reduce the amount of profits that GPs take from the money they get from Government. Government money is intended to cover costs of running GP services, but the 084 nos take extra subsidy from patients indirectly. The publicity genetrated may also rub off on others indirectly subsidising themselves from service users this way. Survey is at:- http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultation...ions/DH_091879
I complained to talktalk about having to use 0870, which outside my package, to get information from them and was told that talktalk customers were identified, if in a package deal, and not charged for the call. I will check my bill at the end of the month to check this out! Small consolation but sensible. I hated the idea of having to pay to complain.
its inconceivble that a phone company should have a premium rate number to contact them on I've come to find that telephone companies will have a free number as they provide the line anyhow but everyone else has a 0845 number.
what I really find criminal is that even the police use 0845, you read a newspaper article featuring say a robbery and at the end say police would like anyone with information to come forward and can contacted on 0845...... I think jesus why don't they just make 999 a paynumber too ! luckily we know the real landline number of our local police station
The article says that the surgeries do not make a profit from using these numbers, but just offsets the costs
It depends on the definition of "profit." Reading NEG's case studies, i quote:-
Quote:
You and your staff benefit
When a surgery switches to an 084 number, NEG will install and maintain the
most efficient communications system on the market. You specify exactly what equipment you want to receive (from handsets to switchboards) for no extra charge. With your own 084 number, you keep about 2p from every call to re-invest in your practice, instead of BT making all the profit from calls to your surgery.
Surgeries, I assume, are prohibited from making a profit so instead the money is "re-invested." Basically to me that reads they get money from the calls but put it into something else. One wonders what the something else maybe....
BT residential landline? Click HERE to see my '6 steps to reducing costs' (last updated 14-October-2009). Read the full MSE article too though - it's a money-saving read.
GPs are not an exception as providers of NHS services, many NHS Trusts also use revenue sharing numbers. The NHS is not an exception within public services, many other public bodies do so also.
Whether or not GPs are overpaid is of no relevance, the issues would be exactly the same regardless. It is also irrelevant as to whether all the money earned from the revenue share goes to pay for a good telephone system that patients love, or if it helps to provide a surplus for the practice from which the partners and staff are able to benefit whilst patients hate the telephone system.
The NHS carries the proud principle of being "free at the point of need", funded by taxation. It is this principle that is breached by use of revenue sharing telephone numbers in the provision of NHS services. Whatever other issues may be raised when considering examples of this, and whatever rightly needs to be done to deal with these also, I must urge focus on this issue whilst the current consultation is underway. A proper and complete resolution may assist with some other matters.
Attacking the earnings of GPs in general (90% do not use revenue sharing numbers) will not win their support in seeking alternative ways of funding advanced telephone systems. GMS contractors are not prohibitted from making "profit", nor are GPs paid a "salary" by the NHS; getting engaged in the detail of their particular financial arrangements will do little to help resolve the real issue.
There are many other public bodies which do not levy chjarges for their services, but nonetheless use revenue sharing numbers; Police services are actually in the lead amongst those who are now changing away to geographic or 03 numbers. I hope it is not being suggested that GPs should not change because others have not done so first.
For bodies that do levy charges for their services it is a matter of how those charges are distributed and advised. Most would agree that Customer Services operations should be funded out of gross profit on the main business, rather than more directly. This could however be a matter of debate, especially in situations where these operations are outsourced.
It is unquestionably unacceptable to use mis-advertised revenue sharing numbers to provide a chargeable service that is said to be free, or not understood as being chargeable. Furthermore it is unacceptable to use BT tariffs as the basis for advising costs, because there is no obvious "standard charge" and those most commonly used are atypical of charging in general.
I think this is a brilliant website.....my mobile phone company T Mobile told me about this site as we had fallen into the trap of ringing 0845 numbers and 0870 numbers and been charged extortionate prices!! Good on then I say and I have told everyone I know about saynoto0870.com!!
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I tend to try and look up numbers for the normal number so to speak but cant always find it or i havent got enugh time and end up using the 0870 number
i think its disgusting that doctors are now using this-people are ill and its mean to be a free nhs service!
as for the news that bt are including it in their weekend packaages good for them-but when will virgin and the like follow as im not spending out to get bt installed jsut because its a few free calls
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board.
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps.
Update from Ofcom
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