Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

A little belatedly, I'm afraid. But better late than never :-)

If_in_doubt,_do_sums wrote: »

Hi all. Just after some opinions.

We moved into our home a year ago, and are on a metered estate (with 12 houses) currently supplied by BATA. Before we moved in, I found this thread and researched metered estates, so we knew we would have little choice in what we were being charged (which has been more at 55.9ppl since January), but we have been happy with the customer service from the company, and the estate has never run out of LPG. In addition, we are not currently tied in to a fixed term contract.

Earlier this year, another resident started campaigning to change suppliers to LPG Direct, who I couldn't find any information about. The representative from this company has put a lot of legwork into listening to all the residents concerns and has offered a tempting introductory offer (40ppl fixed until 31st January 2015, no increase of >3ppl in any six month period). We were very nearly at a unanimous point to change, when BATA wrote to us all to offer us 39.4ppl fixed until end September 2015, and no increase of >3.5ppl in six months for the following year. On the condition that we sign a two year agreement.

What would you do?! In either case, we are likely to be charged a high amount again in 2 years time, but if we can all change now (there are only 12 houses), hopefully we can rally the troops again when the time comes.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for sharing these quotes.

At your current price of 55.9 you are certainly paying quite a lot for good customer service (but then some folk pay far more than that to majors..and some get lousy service). For wholesale prices - and transparent prices of some of the independents - see HateLPG's monthly charts covering the previous 24 months: the most recent is #2346, the post before yours.

Of the two offers BATA's seems the better. You'll be needing refilling in February (and March) when the price is likely to be 40+3 from LPG Direct, and maybe 40+3+3 for April... whereas BATA have guaranteed (check the small print!) 39.4 up to September. And you've had good service from them so far (even if they've been charging rather a lot..but that's the nature of the bulk LPG market if the user doesn't complain. And with the majors even if he/she does!).

The other factor you need to check is tank rental costs - if necessary you can use this as a bargaining chip!

Interesting that BATA doesn't have you in a 2yr contract: the only other suppliers that don't do this (so far as I know) are Cardiff Gas (north and south of the Severn) and HBS (Hampshire).

There are several posts about metered estates where the 2yr exclusivity term has been reset by the supplier getting a new owner (and in one case a new short-term tenant!) to sign a 2yr contract...so the estate is effectively locked in. The rate of turn-over of supplier to individual properties has increased markedly since the Competition Commission made switching easier, and contracts a maximum of 2 yrs, back in 2009 - but the turnover rate for metered estates has hardly moved.

So I think you need to INSIST that the 2 yr contract has a clause that the exclusivity term ends for ALL users on the estate on a fixed date i.e. anyone buying a property within that time will have less than 2 years exclusivity. This clause has been included in at least one estate's contract. You probably have found the post but here is a list of all the posts on metered estates I've recorded (with a couple of other relevant posts):

Metered estates

Metered estate conversion factors from uklpg:
http://www.uklpg.org/uploads/DOC4D42ED7E85FFF.pdf

Competition Commission’s Metered estates order:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402141250/http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/notice_order_metered_estates.pdf

Metered estate, BATA, Yorks/Lincs area (If in doubt, do sums, 20.10.14):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66790778&postcount=2347

Metered estate, Flogas, ~50 houses, Taunton (tiff456, 14.02.14):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64699668&postcount=2235

Metered estate, Flogas, Dorset, (“Getting Flogas to back down!”) (Lpgnewbie, 05.01.14):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64274981&postcount=2193

Metered estate, Calor deal, 54 houses, Perthshire (bintyandthebeast, 08.08.13, 14.02.14):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62774340&postcount=2044
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64701152&postcount=2237

Metered estate, Flogas deal, 37 houses, Warwickshire (routly, 28.06.13):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62132207&postcount=2022

Metered estate – 332 households on ex-RAF base (13.01.12, and follow-up 02.04.12):
http://rainbow.chard.org/2012/01/13/calor-cynically-locks-in-an-entire-village/

Metered estate and tenants (Tyringham, 24.10.11):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=47956929&postcount=1113

Metered estate, Flogas deal (LPG customer, 28.09.10):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37031086&postcount=221

Metered estate – problems so “Goodbye calor, forever” (snafu, 21.08.09):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=24409983&postcount=108

[If I've missed any out, I hope someone will tell me and I'll correct the list].

Why are you "likely to be charged a high amount again in 2 years time"? Use HateLPG's charts, and other posts on this forum, and start negotiating a couple of months before the 2 years is up.

I think you ALL owe the resident who started campaigning for a change a very nice Christmas present! Maybe you can see if any other supplier wants to offer even better terms than you have on the table already? BTW LPG Direct used to be called Energas (and someone has posted a good report about it). And BATA seems to have some tie-in with Calor, judging by its website...but it may only be that their tankers fill up at Calor's depot (but down here in the far southwest nearly all the suppliers fill up from each others' depots, or so I am told by the tanker drivers).


Some people on metered estates have suggested that each estate elects a 'manager' for the bulk LPG supply - it shouldn't be a very onerous job if there are only 12 properties.

Finally, remember that metered estates are seen as cash cows by the suppliers! So much so that builders of off-grid estates get all sorts of wonderful deals from the major suppliers. You will probably find an independent would stretch its delivery area to come to you!


Please keep us posted.
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simonspeakeasy wrote: »

My Avanti contract expired in August and the renewal letter from that time gave a price of 51ppl + VAT.
I need a fill, so I called Extra Gas who quoted 38ppl fixed for the first year then standard variable for the second (which is *currently* 37.6ppl).
Phoned Avanti & asked if they could compete with this offer. They gave me 36ppl (actually undercutting Extra Gas) fixed for the first year then standard variable (which is probably around 51ppl) for the second. They sweetened this with a £50 credit to my account.
Happy to stay with Avanti as they have provided good service over the last 2 years. And I'll make certain to get a fill just before the discounted rate expires.
I reckon that Jaspersmum has an excellent deal with fixed prices for 2 years.
Thanks to all contributors in this thread for all the information they provide.

Welcome to the forum.

Many thanks for giving ALL the details. We know from several independents that this behaviour by Avanti - suddenly dropping their quote drastically and undercutting the independent's quote - is the norm for the majors (Calor, Flogas / MacGas, Avanti). I've even had one independent boss tell me they'd be supplying at a loss if they went that low; others had reported they've heard the same from other independents. Of course the major supplier knows that if their deal goes pear-shaped* they have a massive cushion from all the high rates others are paying. And they keep their market share.

But please read the small print. Lister Gases, an independent in the Midlands, has interesting comments on its website - along with its transparent tracker price (which HateLPG includes on his monthly charts for all to see). The "Questions and Answers" are here: www.listergases.co.uk/anti.aspx and this month's tracker price is 41.53.

Lister also do a deal with Malvern Hills council - currently 39.51: cheap LPG for people in the MH district.( http://www.malvernhills.gov.uk/energy-efficiency and open a pdf of monthly prices).

Here's a link to the post by jaspersmum that simonspeakeasy mentions: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66478512&postcount=2341 .. which backs up the comments by Lister Gases. Calor in her case, with price rises which don't reflect the rises and falls in the wholesale price..

Personally I wouldn't trust a company that drops its price by 29% (from 51 to 36ppl)! But I hope your new deal works for you: please keep the forum posted, especially about the second year.

*PS "pear-shaped". That would be difficult! Down here in Cornwall Extra Fuel (Extra Gas, separate companies, but whatever!) use Flogas to deliver...so Extra Fuel are selling to me at, currently, 37.66 and - presumably! - Flogas are still making a profit at the price they charge Extra Fuel. So Avanti is still making a nice profit when they undercut Extra Fuel. www.extrafuel.co.uk

PPS .....AND majors have even undercut the Malvern Hills very special deal with Lister Gases to keep their customers.

PPPS (apologies) ......several other councils/community groups have moved beyond the easy business of community heating oil buying into community bulk LPG buying to get cheaper LPG ....These have been reported on the forum - but in all but one case (in Scotland) the chosen supplier has been Flogas, via a third party intermediary. And the sort of prices Flogas has been offering? I'll leave readers to guess! But as a clue: Flogas will still be making a profit (see *PS above), and still be maintaining market share.
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