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Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?
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Well it is 23 months since we moved into our house and the LPG contract is up for renewal, so in a pugnacious mood I started enquiring about deals.
We live in a 5 bed detached house which is over 200 years old, so despite plenty of loft insulation and full double glazing, the energy required to keep warm is staggering. We use about 5,500 litres of LPG a year, this runs the condensing boiler and the AGA range, the only means of cooking in the house.
Our current supplier is Northern Energy /Northern LPG Supplies (aka LPG Homeheat), who have been very good in terms of service, although I have had to argue with them frequently about trying to push the price up to what I consider to be unjustified levels.
We are on a top up system with a direct debit collected 21 days after delivery, this gives us the additional benefit of 'free' boiler breakdown cover with up to 2 claims per 12 months, 1st claim to a maximum value of £250, 2nd to a maximum of £190.
The current price is 47.6p per litre plus VAT which is slightly above the level that we started at 45.0p per litre. The price has always been between these two figures.
My first move was to phone every other supply company I could find to ask for a quotation. I phoned as previously I had found emailing did not always elicit a response. All suppliers were able to quote immediately, once I had told them our usage, no other details were needed (at least this aspect is in line with the regulations!).
These are the responses I received:-
Calor
http://www.calor.co.uk/
£0.44 per litre + VAT
£150 credit
£62 tank rental
Price held for 9 months
No more than 3.5p maximum increase in any 3 month period
LPG Direct (Northern) Ltd
http://www.lpg-direct-northern.co.uk/
£0.45 per litre + VAT
£60 tank rental
Price held for 6 months then onto variable rate
Bulk Gas UK Ltd
01623 822 772
£0.45 per litre + VAT
£100 tank rental
Premier LPG Ltd
http://www.premierlpg.co.uk/
£0.43 per litre + VAT
Price held to end of 2013 then will go up (no cap)
£60 tank rental
Avanti Gas £0.419 per litre + VAT fixed for 6 months
£0.439 per litre + VAT fixed for 12 months
No more than 5p maximum increase in any 6 month period
£60 tank rental
Northern Energy - Northern LPG Supplies Ltd
http://www.northernenergy.co.uk/
£0.438 + VAT fixed until end Sept 2013
No more than 3p per litre rise in any 6 month period
Free boiler service or £50.00
Free boiler cover for payment by direct debit on the top up scheme
I also contacted Rectory Gas Supplies, who claim to cover North Lincolnshire, but actually don't, even though their lorry almost passes my door on the way to the refinery. Extra Fuel also quoted, but as it was just the standard price on the website (51.76p per litre + VAT) with nothing in the way of an incentive, it was a very short conversation. Discount Gas Supplies in Doncaster seem to have morphed into Calor, as this was my first call, and I was called back by the Calor rep (who was very helpful I have to say).
I spoke to several of the suppliers a couple of times to try and elicit additional extras, so the prices and deals quoted above are after some negotiation.
I have decided to stay with Northern Energy, it is a close call, but on the basis that I know that I can at least discuss price (and they will listen) and they have held prices or imposed lower rises than advised after discussion, it is probably better to stick with what I know. Avanti made a very good case, but having just read the email from Tinhat above, it looks like their attractive introductory offer is just that. Calor were also very keen, but not quite keen enough.
On a final note, I also asked Northern Energy to make an amendment to their terms & conditions so that in the event that they are taken over, I would be free to change supplier.
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....with Avanti Gas who have just raised their price by 2.4ppl from 47.9ppl to 50.5ppl. Five months ago it went up by 2.9ppl from 45ppl to 47.9ppl.
It would appear they have broken their max 5ppl rise within 6 months price promise so I am going to write to them giving 42 days notice to end my 2 year contract (which incidentally ends in September this year anyway).
What happens at the end of 42 days? Am I just free of the contract but still an Avanti customer, or do I have to find another supplier within 42 days?
I have enough gas in the tank to last until the summer and am thinking of signing up with Mole Valley Farmers (last summer they were charging 35.6ppl in July, 42.1ppl in August according to their sales rep)...
Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the info re Avanti - useful to hear how this new supplier behaves (most people reading this will know they bought Shell's domestic LPG supply business). I'm sure you've checked these rises against HateLPG's chart (here) and can see there wasn't much reason for them.
If you tell them they have broken the contract and you are leaving they will still own the tank: your new supplier may want to buy it off Avanti (at a price fixed by the Competition Commission - see 'Schedule 1' here) or they may want to instal their own. Switching suppliers without installing a new tank has to be completed within 28 days.
If you go with Mole Valley you will actually have a contract with Calor or Flogas (or whoever) but benefit from Mole's bulk buying prices. I'd get the MVF sales rep to set it all down in an email - including the historic prices he/she quoted (35.6 to 42.1ppl - that's quite a jump!). A couple of people on the forum have mentioned using them - and a couple have mentioned they have had difficulty getting info from them. Hence the email! (Though it's wise anyway as there are so many tales of suppliers' - ahem - poor memory on this forum).
Please keep us posted.0 -
Results of my enquiries to date all during Feb:
Lister Gas 50ppl Midlands area only
Extra Fuel: 50.23ppl Tank rental £120/annum
MVF: 46ppl for 3 months (Flogas supplied)
Calor: 44.9ppl for 3 months then capped at 3.5p/qtr. (their fair pricing clause)
Shell: 43.5ppl for 6 months then capped at 3ppl/6 month. Tank rental £100/annum.
Flogas: 65ppl with no cap Tank rental £40/annum. That's not an introductory price but must be their special loyalty price after 15 years. :rotfl:
Hi,
Shamefully I've not posted here for a couple of years but this was my post from 21st Feb '11.
I went with Shell after the prospect of 71ppl with FloGas.
As you know, Shell sold out to Avanti who sent a contract renewal in Jan at 48.9ppl held for 6 months (described as customer loyalty reward).
I made an enquiry to 'CompareLPG' and that came back at 44.9ppl. held for 6 months.
A few days ago, without any contact from me to Avanti, another contract arrived. referring to a recent conversation (that never took place) with an offer of 46.4ppl fixed for 12 months.
Four pages of T&Cs accompanying and I was interested to note under their section 6.4 reads:
"We will send you advance notice of any change to our current Gas price. Wherever possible we will give five or more days' notice of any changes in our current Gas price.
Interesting because the two letters I've received, in the two year period, notified that the increase was with immediate effect.
Regardless of all that, I'm still quids in when compared to what I'd have paid to FloGas were I still in their clutches. I think I'll just sign up for a further two years and see what happens.
I need a top up
PS consumption is 2500 litres/annum0 -
Hi,
A few days ago, without any contact from me to Avanti, another contract arrived. referring to a recent conversation (that never took place) with an offer of 46.4ppl fixed for 12 months.
Interesting, last week Avanti offered me 43.9p + VAT fixed for 12 months (see above), I'm in North Lincolnshire, but I do use 5,500 litres a year.0 -
Interesting, last week Avanti offered me 43.9p + VAT fixed for 12 months (see above), I'm in North Lincolnshire, but I do use 5,500 litres a year.
I did see your post and put the 2.5p down to volume although I'd expect the difference to be greater with almost twice the consumption.0 -
A few days ago, without any contact from me to Avanti, another contract arrived. referring to a recent conversation (that never took place) with an offer of 46.4ppl fixed for 12 months.
.....
PS consumption is 2500 litres/annum
andInteresting, last week Avanti offered me 43.9p + VAT fixed for 12 months (see above), I'm in North Lincolnshire, but I do use 5,500 litres a year.
This would seem about comparable. If you look at the Malvern Hills pricing (here), you will note that they state:
Their current (February 2013) price is 45.85ppl (or 48.85ppl for those using less than 2,500 litres per year).If you use more than 2500 litres a year, you pay the standard agreement price [snip];
If you purchase less than 2500 litres a year, you will pay an extra 3p per litre [snip]
As has often been stated on this forum, annual usage has a significant impact on price, and it seems that 2,500litres per year (or thereabouts) is the deciding level. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that dramatically overstating your expected usage just to get a better price is a good idea - I have seen a few contracts that allow the supplier to claw back the difference if the stated expected usage differs significantly from actual usage.0 -
Many thanks for all the replies,
Does anyone know what happens after I terminate my Avanti contract due to them breaking the 5ppl rise in 6 months clause? What happens at the end of 42 days notice period? Am I just free of the contract but still an Avanti customer, or do I have to find another supplier within 42 days?
I am tempted by the Mole Valley Farmers offer which is variable. The historical prices they quoted were:
Feb 13 48.75
Nov 12 48.75
Oct 12 46.6
Aug 12 42.1
Jul 12 35.6
Seems there could be quite a saving if filling up in the Summer months.0 -
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Does anyone know what happens after I terminate my Avanti contract due to them breaking the 5ppl rise in 6 months clause? What happens at the end of 42 days notice period? Am I just free of the contract but still an Avanti customer, or do I have to find another supplier within 42 days?
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Seems there could be quite a saving if filling up in the Summer months.
Sorry but my reply to your earlier post was intentionally ambiguous as I don't have a copy of an Avanti contract - let alone yours. You'll need to read the small print, preferably twice! Possibly you have to give them 42 days' notice of leaving - or maybe give them notice within 42 days of receiving notification of a contract-busting price rise that you intend to leave?
Avanti may come back and offer to reduce the price rise.
There will almost certainly be a clause that says only Avanti, or a firm acting for Avanti, can fill their tank...i.e. just because you have no contract doesn't mean you can shop around for the cheapest fill. Many people have supplies out-of-contract. So you will still be an Avanti customer until another supplier takes over or replaces the tank.
The 28 days switch time comes from the CC report. If the incoming supplier wants to instal their tank the two suppliers (outgoing and incoming) have longer (42 days, if I remember correctly). Some out-going companies were reported to be dragging their feet - so the advice on the forum was to inform the OFT (Office of Fair Trading - email in earlier posts).
If you want to go with Mole Valley, chat to their rep - but make sure you have read your contract carefully before and have it to hand! The contracts are not the clearest bits of English!
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Cheaper in summer? Not necessarily so - look at the charts - especially ones for more than 2 years. Wholesale price goes up and down for all sorts of logical and illogical reasons (and because traders are trying to manipulate the market).
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On Tuesday, I called to see a friend of mine who is a chicken farmer (he grows 'day old' chicks up to slaughter weight for the supermarkets)
Into the yard came a tanker with Calor written on the side.
He owns his own tank which holds 10,000L
Me - How much you paying?
Him - 30p
Me - 50p for our domestic 1,000L delivery
Him - It was 29p in January
:cool:0 -
I've now been with my LPG supplier, HBS, for just over a year. During that time my bills have been:
01/10/11 778l @ 45ppl £367.60 (inc VAT)
16/02/12 1000l @ 45ppl £472.50
25/07/12 1000l @ 45ppl £472.50
24/12/12 1000l @ 45ppl £472.50
25/02/13 1000l @ 45ppl £472.50
Considering that I was paying Calor 55ppl back in 2010, I'm pretty happy with the current situation.
I have a 30 year old Baxi Bermuda back boiler, which has given very little trouble (gas valve and thermocouple £60). It may only be 65% efficient, but bearing in mind the cost of replacement with a modern condensing boiler at 90% (on a good day), costing £2000 installed, the pay back period is a very long time!
I know that the Baxi will fail eventually, but that fact that spares are still readily available, I'm in no rush to change.0
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