📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Options
15657596162451

Comments

  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    edited 14 January 2011 at 2:05PM
    I've just found this on the OFT website: http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/traders/26/1/ It makes for very interesting reading.

    Basically, in 2005, Flogas were required by the OFT to substantially rewrite their Domestic LPG supply contract. At the time, the OFT stated that it still had reservations with regards to the price increase terms. Specifically:
    The position of the OFT was reserved in respect of Term 6.6 of the supplier's revised terms and conditions. This term was originally challenged (as Term 5.6) under paragraph 1(l) of Schedule 2 to the Regulations on the basis that it allowed the supplier an unfettered right to increase the price of any LPG supplied to the consumer.

    Subsequently, the term has been revised to provide that if the price of LPG is increased by more than 2.5 pence per litre in any 6 month period the supplier will write to the consumer in advance and will justify the increase in accordance with changes in the Platts LP Gaswire Index, any increase in RPI and any exceptional increase in the supplier's operational costs.

    In addition, Term 6.7 has also been revised to state that on any change in the price of LPG the consumer will be able to renegotiate the price charged with the supplier. Term 6.7 has also been amended to provide that the supplier will not increase the price of LPG sold to consumers still within the minimum initial period of the agreement (usually being 3 years) by more than any increase in the price of LPG sold to any consumers whose minimum initial period has expired (and can therefore cancel the agreement by giving 3 month's notice).

    The OFT remains concerned that this term potentially unfairly allows the company an excessive right to vary the price of LPG. However, in light of the revisions made to the term and to Term 6.7 we are prepared to reserve the OFT's position. While it is considered that potential for unfairness remains in this term, subject to receipt of further evidence or complaints that the term is operating unfairly to the detriment of consumers further enforcement action is not considered warranted.
    If you are currently under contract with Flogas, I would check your contract very carefully. If the price cap clause has magically "disappeared" from your current contract, I would suggest writing to the OFT as a matter of urgency; I would anyway, check your contract carefully to ensure that it still complies with the OFT requirements in all other areas - you may well find that if they hit you with an increase of 7ppl, you might be able to extricate yourself from the contract (but you'll have to move fast and inform sharpish of your intentions and in writing. Given some of the recent reports about Flogas "losing" paperwork, make doubly sure that you use delivery that ensures a dated signature as proof of delivery!

    I would also seriously question whether the OFT would consider it remotely reasonable for a letter to be sent out such that it arrives on or after the day that price rise comes into effect, and I'm sure they would be interested to hear from any users who have been hit with this latest price rise.

    It's interesting to note that BP were also required to revise their supply contract in 2005, and again, the OFT had reservations over their price increase terms (http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/traders/1476/1/).

    There is no record on the OFT site of any other LPG supplier having been required to amend their contracts.

    Please also see my later post on this matter (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40237294&postcount=590) before writing ;)
  • Yet another one now to 51.4 p per litre. They say its less than 10% but that is based on the price which had already been increased in July. Net result a increase of >30% on the average price for 2009.

    There are lots of comparison websites for Natural Gas ane Electricity. Anybody know of one for LPG
  • ......
    There are lots of comparison websites for Natural Gas ane Electricity. Anybody know of one for LPG

    Hi LPG Retired,

    Welcome to the forum. I hope there's some useful info here.

    Thanks for posting the Calor prices. So far as anyone on here knows there is NOT a comparison site for LPG. But HateLPG collated all the prices reported on MSE in 2008, 2009 and 2010. The 2010 figures are here:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=38448236&postcount=324

    You will see that Flogas was charging one user 30 ppl while they charged another 68 ppl last Autumn.

    If you think there needs to be some regulation of the LPG 'market' please support (by adding your 'thanks') this post: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477

    Have you checked your contract with Calor to see if there's a maximum price rise per 3 (or 6) months which they may have exceeded? If they have you have the right to give notice to end the contract ... or you can argue for a lower increased price - and maybe even a refund if they exceeded the maximum rise previously. (You'll find posts about this on the forum - someone will help if you have problems finding them).

    How long more has your contract with Calor got to run? And will you say where (roughly!) you live, please?
  • frankie
    frankie Posts: 848 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    Yet another one now to 51.4 p per litre. They say its less than 10% but that is based on the price which had already been increased in July. Net result a increase of >30% on the average price for 2009.

    There are lots of comparison websites for Natural Gas ane Electricity. Anybody know of one for LPG


    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    When did you receive the latest price rise notification from Calor?

    I ordered a delivery on 4 Jan and am still waiting as they say there are delays due to adverse weather. (I think they should have cleared back logs by now?).

    Am I being cynical in thinking they're delaying deliveries if a price increase is in the offing? They wouldn't do that would they? Would they? MMmmm.
  • frankie wrote: »
    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    When did you receive the latest price rise notification from Calor?

    I ordered a delivery on 4 Jan and am still waiting as they say there are delays due to adverse weather. (I think they should have cleared back logs by now?).

    Am I being cynical in thinking they're delaying deliveries if a price increase is in the offing? They wouldn't do that would they? Would they? MMmmm.

    Hi frankie,

    When a BP delivery arrived after a price rise notification - which came after my order - I kicked up .. and BP charged me at the old rate. Not a great amount of money, I admit.

    Good luck.

    cheers,
    LittleVermin
  • Hi there
    Thought I'd share the quotes I've received yesterday & today...

    Calor Gas - Market Rate 50ppl Intro 44.9ppl 3month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank)

    Flogas 46ppl 2 years variable

    BP 46ppl 6month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank)

    Extra Fuel 54.27ppl January price

    Shell (via Mole Valley Farmers Plus) 47ppl

    Best Regards
  • Hi there
    Thought I'd share the quotes I've received yesterday & today...

    Calor Gas - Market Rate 50ppl Intro 44.9ppl 3month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank)

    Flogas 46ppl 2 years variable

    BP 46ppl 6month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank)

    Extra Fuel 54.27ppl January price

    Shell (via Mole Valley Farmers Plus) 47ppl

    Best Regards

    How does the Shell price through MVF compare with the Shell price you are currently paying, please? And what about the terms (rental, max rate of rise, etc)?

    If you look at this post http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=38318292&postcount=300 from mixit1 the Flogas price through MVF was 30ppl when he was paying 45 ppl before joining. It strikes me your Shell MVF price is not in the same territory!
  • Hi there
    Thought I'd share the quotes I've received yesterday & today...

    Calor Gas - Market Rate 50ppl Intro 44.9ppl 3month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank) rise limited to 3.5p every 3 months

    Flogas 46ppl 2 years variable £60pa tank rental

    BP 46ppl 6month fix (but won't take us as we've underground tank) 4-6p variable thereafter

    Extra Fuel 54.27ppl January price

    Shell (via Mole Valley Farmers Plus) 47ppl

    Best Regards

    Complete info as I have added above... I'm having a nightmare with Shell at the moment, they're not responding to phone calls or emails, so I don't know what their offer price is. They invoiced me 54ppl when they topped the tank up in December 2010... our previous top up was March 2010 @ 39ppl... & I hadn't received any advice of price increases
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    edited 14 January 2011 at 2:06PM
    Having read and digested the two OFT rulings on unfair contracts that I unearthed yesterday (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40209456&postcount=582) two things occur to me:

    1. The OFT consider that a contract that does not in any way offer some kind of price protection to the consumer is an unfair contract (this is actually what I have suspected for some time - see http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/unfair-terms/guidance - and is why I was quite keen to have a careful look over a current Flogas contract before posting on this matter (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40192232&postcount=577))
    2. The Rulings on the unfair contracts for Flogas and BP were made after referrals by Leicestershire County Council and Surrey County Council respectively.
    Now I am pretty certain that the councils themselves would have little or no interest in Domestic LPG pricing, so this leads me to conclude that the referrals were made by Trading Standards. Given that Trading Standards are far more likely to listen to individual consumers and that they in turn are likely to have more "clout" with the OFT I would suggest that if you have (or are offered) a contract that allows prices to change without limit, rather than contacting the OFT directly in the first instance, you refer it to your local Trading Standards Team.

    I also think (given the reservations previously expressed by the OFT, who obviously still have concerns in this area), that it would not be unreasonable to suggest that all LPG contracts should be inextricably linked to Platts LPGaswire from date of signing, and that in the event that the price according to that index falling by more than a pre-determined percentage, the supplier should be required to pass that reduction on.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.1K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 599.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177K Life & Family
  • 257.5K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.