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Assertiveness
Comments
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moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »I'm surprised this person is still trying, as I would have taken the view that "Well...what is the point of carrying on trying to see someone who obviously doesn't want to see me? Why would I want to see someone who doesn't want to see me anyway?" and would do something else instead.
I think this, apart from the practical side of not getting into stuff you really don't want to do, is really useful.
It turns the situation round from feeling like the 'inferior' person who has to fit in with the other person to a stronger person who is thinking 'Just how thick is this person who can't hear that I'm saying no?' which instantly reduces any control the other person has over you.0 -
My wife doesn't seem to have any problems saying no to me!!!{Signature removed by Forum Team}0
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And, if any one of those people had said no, the others would probably have chimed in. It's very manipulative for the woman to do it this way. It should have been discussed and those willing to get involved be given the opportunity to put their names forward.
It may never become easy but it will become easier if you practice saying no, especially if you combine it with exercises to promote your selfworth.
Would your wife find some strength from asking herself whether she would do to someone else what is being done to her? If she knows that she wouldn't, it would be easier to say no.
Re your second paragraph: I do appreciate what you're saying Mojisola, I genuinely do, but as I said in my other post; for some people, it's nigh on impossible for them to be assertive, (or train themselves to be,) if they're not that way inclined. And as I said, I don't think that any amount of practice, or assertiveness training can alter that. I'm not sure how many other people agree, but my wife has said time and again (and so has my sister who has always been rather timid,) that no matter how they try, they can't alter their personality.
I liked your last paragraph though, and I agree that my wife should ask herself if she would do to someone else, what is being done to her. I can tell you that she most definitely wouldn't treat people that way. So maybe I should show her what you've written!
Good point about the woman being rather manipulative. Getting everyone to put their names and numbers into a hat, and ring the person whose name you pulled out to meet for coffee, without consulting people first, was out of order! It filled my wife with anxiety to be honest, and she kind of worried about it over new year, and this annoyed me that she had been put in this position.
Regarding your first paragraph; she said she did consider saying she doesn't want to take part, but she thought that either people would think she was a miserable cow, or other people would say 'I don't want to do it either!' and the whole thing would have to be cancelled, and the lady would hold her responsible for her idea being poo-pooed! (A typical thought/reaction from insecure people.)
She did go to Church this morning, and it was quite busy (about 45 people,) so she was able to mingle well after the service (when they have a coffee and a chat,) and didn't really see the woman she should have phoned. She saw her for 5 seconds and said hello, and the woman smiled and said hello back, but my wife never mentioned anything to her about it, and the woman never mentioned it either, so maybe she didn't really want to do it either. Or maybe she got the idea that my wife wasn't really on board with the whole idea!I think this, apart from the practical side of not getting into stuff you really don't want to do, is really useful.
It turns the situation round from feeling like the 'inferior' person who has to fit in with the other person to a stronger person who is thinking 'Just how thick is this person who can't hear that I'm saying no?' which instantly reduces any control the other person has over you.
Good idea. :T
Thanks again Mojisola.
You didn't, did you? :rotfl::rotfl:0 -
I'm glad the other woman didn't mention the phone call - she was probably dreading your wife phoning and wondering what on earth they would talk about!my wife has said time and again (and so has my sister who has always been rather timid,) that no matter how they try, they can't alter their personality.
I don't think it's a case of changing your personality but even very shy or timid people can learn that they have the right to say no.
The most effective way is to find what works for you. Some people can build up the strength to stand up for themselves when needed; others find it easier to use a delaying tactic every time to put some distance between the request (demand!) and having to give an answer when it's easier to say no; others find it easier to 'blame' someone else (My OH wouldn't be happy if I agreed). Whatever works and makes life easier.:)0 -
I don't think it's a case of changing your personality but even very shy or timid people can learn that they have the right to say no.
The most effective way is to find what works for you. Some people can build up the strength to stand up for themselves when needed; others find it easier to use a delaying tactic every time to put some distance between the request (demand!) and having to give an answer when it's easier to say no; others find it easier to 'blame' someone else (My OH wouldn't be happy if I agreed). Whatever works and makes life easier.:)
Good point. I guess it's an idea to say 'I'm not sure yet' or something similar, to give you time to think of an excuse. And yes, saying something like 'oh, me and my husband are busy that day,' or 'the grandkids are coming around,' or 'I need to help my wife hoover the cat,' can give you time to wriggle out of something. Or simply 'I will have to get back to you, when I have asked my OH.'
Still, it's annoying that people should have to make an excuse or give a reason, and can't just say no. My wife constantly makes excuses and gives reasons. And like I said, it doesn't help when people are persistent! Like the person the OP was on about. Maybe people DO feel the need to makes excuses, in case the other person DOES just ask 'why not?!'
And going back to the OP, I think it's rather disgraceful that her 'friend' demanded to know WHY she couldn't make it! I would definitely be trying to phase this friend out of my life if it were me!I'm glad the other woman didn't mention the phone call - she was probably dreading your wife phoning and wondering what on earth they would talk about!
Ha ha, good point! This silly idea of the woman at Church, probably stressed the other woman out too! You didn't, did you? :rotfl::rotfl:0 -
Which is a shame. Because wouldn't the world be a much better place if it was?
Edit - I just remembered where I heard that -
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others" - Dalai Lama XIV
Maybe a better world, for everyone else - whilst we have nothing left for ourselves
we are not talking about 'helping' people, as in people in need, charity etc - we are talking about putting ourselves out for people who seem to want us to drop everything to accomodate their requirements. I think we all need to put ourselves first a bit more sometimesWith love, POSR
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Helping people when they need or would appreciate help/support/friendship is one thing and something we should all aspire to.
Being nice and putting your own arrangements aside for other people's whims based on their convenience is indulging them - fair enough if you want do it, for example very good friends or family. I don't think you should "give in " because others expect or assume you will.pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »Maybe a better world, for everyone else - whilst we have nothing left for ourselves
we are not talking about 'helping' people, as in people in need, charity etc - we are talking about putting ourselves out for people who seem to want us to drop everything to accomodate their requirements. I think we all need to put ourselves first a bit more sometimes
I agree with pickledonionspaceraider and Eric's mum here.
It's one thing to help people, and be there if they need you, but it's another to constantly give in to peoples demands, and drop what you were doing on a whim to satisfy someone's selfish needs.
As people have said, the fact that the person contacting the OP virtually demanded to know why she couldn't accommodate her, is pretty bad.The problem lies when people are persistent. My wife goes to Church a couple of times a month, and she is continually asked to get involved in the flower-arranging, the tea rota, cleaning the Church, visiting homes to 'spread the word of Jesus,' and doing the collection of money from people and so on...
In addition, she gets several Church members who are there ALL the time, and involved in EVERYTHING, continually asking her to come to the fellowship group, house group, second Wednesday group, and all sorts of things. She has said no repeatedly, saying that she is quite happy simply to come to Church, and she is kind of tied up and a bit busy some weeks, and if she took on anything else, she wouldn't be able to guarantee that she would always turn up.
Also, she said that at Church the other week, one woman got everyone to put their names into a hat, and pull a name out, and whoever's name you pull out; you have to ring that person and meet them for coffee. (Cringe.) She means well, but most people don't want to do this; they want to simply go to Church when it suits them, and not be coerced into friendships.
My wife said that a few people looked a bit wary of it, and not keen. She picked out a name, and number, and barely knows the woman, and even though it was 30th December, she has not rung her yet. She said it's putting her off going to Church tomorrow, because she will have to explain why she hasn't rung this woman! All because of some pushy woman trying to make people make friends! #awkward. She said she couldn't say no, as she was put on the spot. And as I said, many others looked like they weren't keen too! She is hoping the woman whose number she got, doesn't mention it when she sees her!
Wow, how annoying. I have a friend who goes to Church once or twice a month and SHE says that she keeps getting badgered by 4 or 5 Church members to join in all sorts of stuff, and she says it wears her down, almost to the point of not wanting to go.
She says 'why can't they just understand that I just want to go to Church? WHY must they badger me constantly to join in with every Church activity and every group?' As you said, it doesn't make you any less of a Christian if you don't join in with every Church activity!
And as for the woman and the number swapping fiasco! :eek:
I agree with Mojisola! What that woman did was not acceptable, and was VERY manipulative. What on earth did she think she was trying to do?! The majority of people I know - including me - would NOT be happy with this.
As Mosijola said, the other woman (whose number your wife had,) was probably as stressed about it as your wife was!Proud to have lost over 3 stone (45 pounds,) in the past year! :j Now a size 14!
You're not singing anymore........ You're not singing any-more!0 -
Really, those types are the ones who should be having counselling but they don't see anything wrong in their behaviour!
I don't think I would necessarily agree with that. People who are pretty "straightforward" and honest themselves might, quite possibly, believe the exact words they are told (ie rather than trying to analyse what the person is really saying iyswim).
It does take a while in our society imo for people to learn to "translate" the exact words being used into "Maybe they aren't saying what those words indicate. Maybe they are really saying x, but aren't doing it in the appropriate words to indicate that the reply is x".
A degree of "translation" skills is required when a "direct straightforward" speaker is talking to an "indirect...doesn't quite say what they mean" speaker and that goes both ways in that conversation I would say.
Hence it helps if everyone speaks in a "direct" way of "I want this. I don't want that. I would like such. I would not like so" and then everyone knows exactly where they stand.0 -
moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »It does take a while in our society imo for people to learn to "translate" the exact words being used into "Maybe they aren't saying what those words indicate. Maybe they are really saying x, but aren't doing it in the appropriate words to indicate that the reply is x".
A degree of "translation" skills is required when a "direct straightforward" speaker is talking to an "indirect...doesn't quite say what they mean" speaker and that goes both ways in that conversation I would say.
Hence it helps if everyone speaks in a "direct" way of "I want this. I don't want that. I would like such. I would not like so" and then everyone knows exactly where they stand.
Presumably all the people involved are adults and have had plenty of time to learn how to interact with others.0
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