BUTTERFLY'S(where are they)

~Chameleon~

I would never actively kill a caterpillar, or any other living creature, but I do offer up any undesirables as "lunch" to the local bird population, especially cockchafer grubs!!!

~Chameleon~

They were just discussing the demise of butterflies and moths on the news and mentioned a new Butterfly World site is undergoing construction to be completed in 2011, I think!

http://www.butterfly-world.org/index.htm

Davesnave

SKIPPY54 wrote: »

I have just been reading another thread where there seems to be an argument brewing over caterpillars just a bit of advice find out whar sort of caterpillars they are before squashing they could be endangered or just nice to look at. I , myself dont spray of have the need to squash caterpillars let nature take its course and the birds and animals in your garden will find their own balance

I don't think there is any 'argument' really. When it comes to butterflies & moths, there's nothing rare that's also a pest in the garden. The two things don't go together. I'd agree entirely that you should research whatever you find before you act though, and now we have the Interweb there's no excuse.

As to 'letting nature take its course,' I'd only observe that gardens and most of the countryside are not natural, so a degree of human management is built in.

SKIPPY54

Look where human management has got us,global warming, deforestation,extinctions at their highest rates,dissapearing hedgrows, fish thrown back into the sea dead because they are to small or the wrong species.
I am sure I dont need to go on,but I will, the decline in birds and insects in Britain are down to greed,the over use of pestisides on farm land and gardens,and the ripping out of hedges and copses.

We all need to rethink how we live,no bee's and butterfly's mean no pollination,that means no harvest for mankind.

When will everyone wake up to the facts.

~Chameleon~

SKIPPY54 wrote: »

Look where human management has got us,global warming, deforestation,extinctions at their highest rates,dissapearing hedgrows, fish thrown back into the sea dead because they are to small or the wrong species.
I am sure I dont need to go on,but I will, the decline in birds and insects in Britain are down to greed,the over use of pestisides on farm land and gardens,and the ripping out of hedges and copses.

We all need to rethink how we live,no bee's and butterfly's mean no pollination,that means no harvest for mankind.

When will everyone wake up to the facts.

Well said!!! :T :T :T :T :T :T :T

Davesnave

SKIPPY54 wrote: »

Look where human management has got us,global warming, deforestation,extinctions at their highest rates,dissapearing hedgrows, fish thrown back into the sea dead because they are to small or the wrong species.
I am sure I dont need to go on,but I will, the decline in birds and insects in Britain are down to greed,the over use of pestisides on farm land and gardens,and the ripping out of hedges and copses.

We all need to rethink how we live,no bee's and butterfly's mean no pollination,that means no harvest for mankind.

When will everyone wake up to the facts.

Hang on a minute.....We were just discussing on another forum how some posters go completely ape in their attempts to put over a point that is dear to them......and I return here to this!

I don't believe I have advocated any of the ills you mention, merely pointed out that the environmernt most gardeners find themselves in is, like it or not, very far removed from being 'natural.' This means that allowing nature to do its own thing isn't as effective as it might be, or you seem to think. The minute we stopped being hunter-gatherers this problem began, and modern population densities make it worse.

The 'natural' environment where I live would be oak-birch woodland, but instead, I've got 80 000 other people and their houses to contend with. It would be great if I could rely on swarms of ladybirds to control my aphids and wading birds to pluck the iris sawfly from the stems in my pond, but it isn't going to happen. Best I can do is get my gang of titmice to clean up what they can and I'll squash the rest. And no, I'm not talking about Peacock butterflies......

By being 'greedy' we Britons are actually producing just 48% of the food we consume, so yes, there's certainly room for us to rethink how we live. Importing 52%, via fossil-fuelled transport can't be doing much for global warming either, can it? We might need to start paying a realistic price for it too and, while we're at it, if it's all going to be organic & non-intensive we'd better bring more marginal, wild areas under cultivation to sustain the yields.

The trouble is that none of this is half as simple as you're making out. There are billions of people on this planet, and most of them just want full bellies, not a Mercedes Benz. 'When will everyone wake up to the facts?' you ask, as if others of us are totally unaware. Well, how about 2008, the year oil hit $200 a barrel, rice became scarce and the equity people thought was 'safe' as houses beganto drain away. Believe me, the waking up has just begun, but it won't end, I fear, with everyone hugging trees and going vegan......

Now where's my loincloth......?

~Chameleon~

I don't think Skippy was aiming his/her comments at you personally Dave, or at least i didn't read it that way, it seemed to be just a general rant.

I fully agree with your comments too and I know it's nowhere near as simplistic as Skippy stated. Even if we all try to do our own bit, as many on this board do, it's not going to solve global problems but at least we can try to make a difference in our own micro-climates. I know that at least makes me feel a little better, but I still get very angry and frustrated with the world at large


PS We might end up getting moved to DT if we get too far OT

Davesnave

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

I don't think Skippy was aiming his/her comments at you personally Dave, or at least i didn't read it that way, it seemed to be just a general rant.

I fully agree with your comments too and I know it's nowhere near as simplistic as Skippy stated. Even if we all try to do our own bit, as many on this board do, it's not going to solve global problems but at least we can try to make a difference in our own micro-climates. I know that at least makes me feel a little better, but I still get very angry and frustrated with the world at large


PS We might end up getting moved to DT if we get too far OT

I'm not worried if Skippy is having a pop at me, because it's good to have a range of opinions on here and I don't exactly play the part of shrinking violet!
All I ask is that people think and don't accept the 'Don't care' or 'I care so deeply' arguments about wildlife without examining them critically.

At the risk of sounding like a certain figure from the recent political past, I'm one who thinks there is a third or middle way. Yes, I care about wildlife, but I also care that we continue to feed our kids and house them. People can make a huge contribution to the survival of wildlife in their gardens, but they don't do it in a vacuum.

We have been extremely fortunate in living through the best times for humankind, but as you and Skippy point out, it has been at a huge cost to the Earth and now it's pay-back time. The future will be very challenging, but the fact that we're now beginning to understand that challenge is entirely positive.

And PS what does your PS mean? What's DT? I'm used to the house buying/house price board, against which this one is postively cuddly!

~Chameleon~

Davesnave wrote: »

And PS what does your PS mean? What's DT? I'm used to the house buying/house price board, against which this one is postively cuddly!

DT = Discussion Time

The board where some of the more controversial topics are "discussed" but make sure you're wearing suitable armour and flame-proof clothing if you venture into there :rotfl:

And don't even think of opening any threads started by studentphil if you want to preserve your sanity!!!

Davesnave

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

DT = Discussion Time

The board where some of the more controversial topics are "discussed" but make sure you're wearing suitable armour and flame-proof clothing if you venture into there :rotfl:

And don't even think of opening any threads started by studentphil if you want to preserve your sanity!!!

Ooh, never been there. I think I'll wait till later and have a couple of whiskies for Dutch courage! Thanks.