What has happened to this forum?!!!

SpendCurber

SquatNow wrote: »

... but one question... why can't you rent? Compared to renting, "buying is dead money"...

:mad: -and I cant find the smiley thats banging its head on a brick wall! -....I give up.

oldMcDonaldsotherusername

Quote:
Originally Posted by Generali
Jonbvn is right. If I could be bothered I'd create 100 IDs and thank him/her with each one. Unfortunately I can't.

You could at least try:D





The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jonbvn For This Useful Post: Show me >>
oldMcDonald (Today), oldMcDonaldsotherusername (Today)

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

There you go, Jonbvn

carolt

I'm off out guys, while the internet bullying goes on.

As I said before - if others don't like my views - tough.

I get picked on here because I'm an easy target - vocal, and few people are brave enough to stand up and be counted against the (obvious bullies); as in real life.

But unlike in real life, it's just words. I have no respect for those who've chosen to attack me personally, rather than my views; so it's like water off a duck's back.

I make an exception of one particular poster who's written unpleasantly about me above; and have PM'd them accordingly. The rest of you: tough.

If you don't like my posts don't read them. I'm not going to give up posting here because of the bullies and those trying to see if if you throw enough mud, will it stick? will find that it makes no difference to me either way.

Have a great day! I shall!

Pobby

Yes I agree about the bulls being the most abusive, Also I will add that so many of them had pretty weak arguments supporting their claims.

OK I admit that I am a confirmed property bear. Indeed I am also one of the older posters( as far as I can make out) on this board. This is my position. I live in an ``average`` town with pretty average to slightly lower property prices. I have been a home owner for over 30 years and apart from a minute £5,000 mortgage ( I took this out because I am very credit adverse and therefore otherwise would not have a ``credit`` foot print).

I could pretty easily, from investments and savings, buy a couple of flats for cash. This is not boasting, as I have already said I am a far bit older than most and I indeed enjoyed the much easier (imho) property route as a baby boomer.

In all honesty, the last thing I would put my money into right now is property. Much of my money is in cash, bonds and a smaller portion in equities. To my mind we are at the brink of great change. I have been a witness to the 70,s, the 3 day working week, strikes, massive inflation. I saw the 80`s, Thatchers ``economic revolution `` built on reckless lending, spin and the breaking up of heavy industry and the dreadful results it had on communities. The 90`s, a scary recession, folk loosing their homes and businesses. I saw young kids on the street begging!

The recovery from recession lead by Prudence Brown, the ``economic miracle``. In my mind this ``miracle`` has been nothing more than based on crazy lending. To my old fashioned way of thinking if you want your own home you had a deposit if nothing more than a demonstration that you had some sort of financial responsibility. I don`t need to go into this in much detail but will just say lie-to-buy,6 times income mortgages and so on. I am sure you get my drift.

I have watched people loose all sense of reality as they mew`ed to buy cars, holidays and whatever the latest gee gaw took their fancy. Just pile on the debt. Pop over to DFW board. How many times have I heard`` we are in debt to £????? with nothing to show for it``. Hey, and don`t just blame the youngsters. I know plenty of boomers who have earn`t terrific incomes but still well in debt on the mortgage with no savings.

I have witnessed a nation that has become so shallow and materialistic. Come on guys, for goodness sakes ,``Big Brother``. Millions each week looking at total naff tv shows. Conversations about gormless, talentless ``celebs``. Parents and schools alike have failed to establish discipline in many of the kids. What kind of a society do we live in that offers teenage girls incentives to get themselves pregnant? What kind of government do we have that is hell bent on handing over most of its duties to Europe?Oh there is so much more.

So to get back to my point, why would I want to invest in property that in my location has gone up by around 350% in 10 years?

I advise the youngsters in my family to sit tight right now. Save up a deposit, live a bit and look at where we are in 2 plus years time. For me, in many aspects of life, we are going into uncharted waters. I have no crystal ball but I have seen speculative bubbles before and the result is always the same.

Bungarm2001

Fantastic post Pobby...sounds like you and I are around the same age.

We do differ tho where property is concerned..I have made my living buying and selling for many years and now have a reasonable size portfolio (gawd, I hate that word...can't believe I just said it!!) 90% of the property I own is unencumbered, so I differ that way to many on here I think. I will always invest in property..it's all I know to be frank.

I agree with everything you say about the credit crunch and how it was bound to happen. Still, I don't think there will be such a spectacular 'crash' as last time, but more an inhevitable gentle slide into even more stress and strife for those who were unfortunate enough to get sucked in by the lets-make-a-million-from-property brigade.

I encouraged my kids to buy as soon as they could and unfortunately, they got caught out in the crash in the late 80's, but are doing great now and don't regret getting back on the ladder. They bought cheap too and have managed with well timed buying and selling to get their mortgages well down. Hopefully, their future is secured.

I do honestly feel bad about young families who are really struggling today. I most certainly wouldn't want to be a twenty something married with kids in this day and age.

All I can say is, thank gawd for this website and others like it. Who cares about the cyber bullies. I 'm certain there are many more level headed people who post on here more than balance them out.

Pobby

Thanks Bungarm. I totally agree with what you say about young families today. It`s quite funny at times in my local when I start the debate that kids have it tougher now than when we were young. Some people of my age and older just don`t get it! I think we had it easy but then we aspired, in our first home, to nothing more than a mattress on the bedroom floor. an old fridge from an aunt and a black and white portable we got through green shield stamps. Lol! Had more exciting things to do at that age rather than worry about what others had!

No I don`t expect to see a crash as such, heck property is too illiquid to do that. What I expect is also a slow slide downward in property prices. I am sure you will agree that there is already huge evidence in new build. Where I am there is still loads of work in progress. Goodness knows how they will sell them at a pofit.

The first in trouble,imho, will be the Johhny come lately btl crowd, those who clearly do not understand yields. Also I think there will be some property developers falling away. Hey it`s a business. I am a businessman and I have had failed ventures in the past. The next people I think are the ones I feel sad for. With tighter lending and rising costs many people will not be able to afford to carry on payments.

Not sure what old Prudence will do now he isn`t creaming off all that stamp duty but then again he would only waste it if past performance is anything to go by.

I have amongst my friends some very active anti Europe activists. They firmly believe that the crazy rise in hpc has been actively engineered by our government as an instrument of control over a huge swathe of the population. Not sure if I quite understand their thinking but one thing is for sure had the government acted (and indeed there were things they could have done to ease hpc) I think the UK would have been an altogether better place to live.

Austin_Allegro

trudiha wrote: »

The interweb is going to hell in a handcart, I tell you.

Aye. T'internet were much better in th'old days. Folk passed the time of day with you and always gave you a smiley and we were in and out of each others forums. There was no need to lock your firewall in them days. But nowadays...;)

Mr._H_2

Pobby wrote: »

No I don`t expect to see a crash as such, heck property is too illiquid to do that.

Not sure I understand this, could you explain? Presumably you agree that what happened in the 90s was a crash? Was the housing market more "liquid" then?

Pobby wrote: »

I am sure you will agree that there is already huge evidence in new build.

There are many areas of the country where new-build flats have genuinely crashed (50% falls, not sure anyone could deny that's a crash).

Pobby wrote: »

The first in trouble,imho, will be the Johhny come lately btl crowd, those who clearly do not understand yields.

Agreed, I've read plenty of horror stories already. Sometime's it's difficult to feel sympathy and you just end up thinking "how could you be so stupid?". People buying flats unseen, not researching if the potential rents they've been quoted are realistic etc. etc.

Pobby wrote: »

With tighter lending and rising costs many people will not be able to afford to carry on payments.

This is quite a concern. Does anyone know how many FTBs over the last couple of years took out 2-year discounted or fixed rate >95% LTV mortgages on an interest-only basis? Presumably that figure could have a huge impact on what happens to property prices over the next 2 years (people come to remortgage only to find they need 100% LTV which doesn't exist; they can't remortgage and can't afford the SVR of their lender and are forced to sell. Lots of forced sellers = continuing fall in house prices).

Pobby wrote: »

Not sure what old Prudence will do now he isn`t creaming off all that stamp duty.

This is something I'm quite concerned about. Over the last 10 years, stamp duty has developed into a major source of income for the exchequer and with radically lower activity in the housing market the income from this is going to be significantly reduced. That's the infamous "golden rule" totally obliterated if it isn't already.

Now for something totally off-topic. This is not a flame or anything, just a friendly FYI - you do know that you're using the grave-accent key instead of the apostrophe/single-quotation-mark key, don't you?

Conrad

The jealousy and resentment of those buying now, and landlords I think stems from what I think is a clash of reality tunnels.

We each have our own unique version of reality, and surely we all think ours has to be THE only true one.

Those of a more cautious nature, are irritated by those of a less anxious disposition that just drift along and buy houses regardless of 'economic indicators' ("dont these idiots study the price inflation curve square route !!!!!!")
The cautious brain processes this in a way that makes it feel resentment of the 'simplicity' of lifestyle / midset the less cautious seem to enjoy.

This brain type then ceases opportunities to verbally whip those "fools" that didnt sit around worrying and fretting.

This jealousy is attenuated when the cautios personality witnesses the success the less cautious / unthinking zombie had with property price inflation - this really is the greatest sin and makes the pessimist almost physically sick.

Pobby

"`" oh indeed I am, lol. In the 90`s everything seemed to happen very quickly. Interest rates were climbing fast. Jobs going rapidly. Don`t forget also that just before the bust they announced the withdrawal of double miras. That pushed houses up properties sharply over a period of months. My £400 a month mortgage soared to nearly £700.

As places were repossesed they were thrown into auctions and sold at a fraction of the price that had been paid a year or two before. Nothing at all appeared to be selling. For example a friend of mind handed in the keys to an hotel he owned. It sold for a bit over £40k in auction.

I am not saying that properties were more liquid then but because they were sold at bargain basement prices they were bound to be snapped up.

Your second point about new build, yes that sector is, imho, a crash. I don`t think we are at crash point in many other sectors right now although I think this could change over a period as affordability becomes an issue. Right now if you have a job and enough to pay your way, rising fuel, food and so on may be bearable but again this all could change. I think a crash will occur if too many are heading for the exit. That exit may well be closed.

This is annecdotal but you might like to hear it. A couple I know, both aged 50 are buying an ex authority house. A well known bank is advising. Because they have no deposit the bank has lent them 10% and is arranging a mortgage through a different lender over 20 years. Yep, even right now the banks are still trying to defy gravity.