Objecting to Planning Permission?

Imp

fluffybishop wrote: »

Sorry to hear you are going through this and hope it all works out for you in the end

We successfully stopped a planning application of our neighbouring attached house a couple of years ago and I know just how stressful it can be - ours turned very very ugly indeed and ended in court.

We were the victors as far as the planning application was concerned but it took its toll on my entire family, our pockets,and involved police,solicitors,barristers,our GP and many other agancies!!

Best of luck to you - keep fighting :T

Don't hold your breath about being the victors. The permitted development rules have changed recently and seem to allow quite big double storey extensions on semi detached houses.

To the OP, is it really worth it? If you lose, you will end up having a neighbour who might really dislike you (as you said it was being built for the eventual occupier) which will be far more stressfull than just having a house overlooking yours.

MORPH3US

I could be wrong, but could the builder just be saying that they are building it to live in to try and get them some sympathy with the PO rather than say "i'm going to build this house and sell on for a quick profit" which would make them less sympathetic?

harryhound

I've already suggested you should put in for the same sort of house as the new one and then move:D

A lot of people cannot get their heads round the fact that the planning permission is given to the LAND and not normally uniquely to the occupant/owner and quite right too, we are all equal in the sight of God (but she does not have to live next door).

Can't remember where this came from but the link to the interactive house is quite fun.
(Suggest you don't show it to your new back garden neighbours, whoever they might be.)

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Homes can be extended without planning permission: Q&A

All that you need to know about the new rules that allow householders to convert their lofts and build rear extensions to their homes without having to seek planning permission. (Thus saving 80K of the 330,000 domestic applications per year and 1000 GBP per application in fees.)

Last Updated: 11:20PM BST 10 Sep 2008
What difference do the new rules make?
Until now, householders were allowed to expand their home by a total of up to 70 cubic metres – or 50 cubic metres for a terraced house – before having to apply for planning permission. This allowance had to be divided up between any extensions and loft conversions. Anyone wishing to expand further was forced to apply for permission from their local council. Now, as well being able to have a loft conversion of up to 50 cubic metres (40 in a rterrace) without planning permission(200 mm back from the eves/gutter), families are free to build a two-storey extension stretching back 3 metres (4 for a detached if single story) from the rear of their house, of up to 2 stories, with no limit to its total volume.
Has anything changed regarding building regulations?
No. All loft conversions and rear extensions must still meet rigorous national standards.
What if I live in a conservation area?
Any household in a conservation area will require planning permission to build a two-storey extension. However, they will not need consent for a single-storey extension less than 3 meters deep.
What grounds for complaint do I have if I object to a neighbour’s planned extension?
The Government says extensions falling within the new limits will be small enough to prevent intrusion on neighbours, and so there is nothing that can be done to stop them. Larger extensions will continue to require planning permission, and neighbours will maintain their right to object to these. However, as well as being free to increase the allowance for extensions in their area, councils can also impose stricter limits if they fear the new rules would have a generally negative effect for neighbours.
What do the new rules on driveways mean?
The Government says restricting driveways is necessary to combat the risk of flooding during heavy rain. It says 55,000 homes were damaged during floods last year because of surface water running off driveways. Surfaces deemed acceptably porous include gapped concrete paving, plus some types of asphalt and gravel.
What are the rules on building other things in my garden?
Decking or platforms are allowed provided they are no more than about 1ft off the ground and that together with other extensions and outbuildings they cover no more than 50 per cent of the garden. Sheds and garages may be a single storey and have a maximum height of 13ft with a dual-pitched roof or 10ft for any other roof.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/hhg/houseguide.html
(interactive planning tool).
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Of course all the plots may have an "Estate Covenant" preventing a list of changes to the existing property - it can be very annoying if it dates back to horse and cart and servants days.

ClassicMad

Imp wrote: »

To the OP, is it really worth it? If you lose, you will end up having a neighbour who might really dislike you (as you said it was being built for the eventual occupier) which will be far more stressfull than just having a house overlooking yours.

Umm, yes, frankly, it is worth it. The whole point of this is that the new house will be so close to us, they may as well just brick up our windows and be done with it. The plans have changed so that they've swapped the rooms around so there are only en-suite, stair & bathrooms on the first floor (obscured glass) - so victory is theirs on that one, but we will have bu**er all light and not much of the sky to look at quite honestly! It backs on to our living room/kitchen diner, so we'll be looking at it all the time.

Imp

ClassicMad wrote: »

Umm, yes, frankly, it is worth it. The whole point of this is that the new house will be so close to us, they may as well just brick up our windows and be done with it. The plans have changed so that they've swapped the rooms around so there are only en-suite, stair & bathrooms on the first floor (obscured glass) - so victory is theirs on that one, but we will have bu**er all light and not much of the sky to look at quite honestly! It backs on to our living room/kitchen diner, so we'll be looking at it all the time.

Just looking at the plans, the fact you have a bungalow seems to be working against you. We were looking at doing a self build, even found a plot, and started looking at what the planners would permit. They probably consider that your current view is the fence (couldn't see the size of it from the plans) so the house would be no worse than the fence. If you had a first floor, then you would have a view other than the fence.

Light wise, the new house is to the North East so it won't cause you any noticable loss of direct sun light.

Seriously, don't think of it as a victory for them or a victory for you. They can apply for anything they want and if it complies with planning, then it has to be approved. The question going through the planner's mind is "If I reject this, will it be overturned at appeal?" If the answer is yes, the planner should approve it. All you can and should be doing is pointing out to the planner how it does not comply with planning guidelines. If they do succeed, I really suggest you try and make friends with them. That way they will tell you if they are carrying out noisy, dusty work and will be considerate to you. If you irritate them during construction, they can cause more of a nuisance to you than you can cause to them. And remember, they will end up as you neighbour.

Has the land actually been bought yet? If not, and you really want to stop development on it, buy it.

Dinah93

Okay you need to find the outline permission to know what condition was placed on it as regards the timescale. We now use a condition in my authority which says full plans must be submitted AND APPROVED in writing within the 3 years, however up until about 2 years ago we just said submitted, so you need to see exactly what condition was used by the authority. If it only says submitted, they could submit plans on the 1st June and still be valid. Also, if they choose to take it to appeal if it is once again refused, then this is classed as still being part of the application process, so the application would not be out of time until that appeal was determined. However this is only if the condition says 'submitted' not 'submitted and approved'.

Hope this helps, Dinah x

Imp

Just getting into the shoes of the people putting up the house, it could easily be planning permission or bust.

You can get a mortgage on land with outline planning permission. Depending upon the mortgage company, you then have around 3 years to complete the build, with the mortgage company giving you stage payments as your build progresses. You can still get 95% LTV self build mortgages (with big fees).

Recently land has been around 50% of the total cost of the build. Land without planning permission is virtually worthless. So if planning permission is refused, the land owners could end up with a worthless piece of land and a dept worth half a house. It could financially cripple them for years and years to come. They could be willing to spend every penny they have and more, work late into the nights and all weekend putting in 50 hours a week to try and push the planning permission through, because if they don't get it, the consequences for them aren't worth thinking about.

Have you actually spoken to them about the house they are building?

ClassicMad

Dinah93 wrote: »

Okay you need to find the outline permission to know what condition was placed on it as regards the timescale. We now use a condition in my authority which says full plans must be submitted AND APPROVED in writing within the 3 years, however up until about 2 years ago we just said submitted, so you need to see exactly what condition was used by the authority. If it only says submitted, they could submit plans on the 1st June and still be valid. Also, if they choose to take it to appeal if it is once again refused, then this is classed as still being part of the application process, so the application would not be out of time until that appeal was determined. However this is only if the condition says 'submitted' not 'submitted and approved'.

Hope this helps, Dinah x

Hi Dinah

The approval document reads:

Application for approval of the reserved matters shall be made to the Local Planning Authority before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission. Reason - to comply with the requirements of Section 92 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

So, I guess that means your second option then? Could whack a last minute application in on 1st June and still have it considered.... bum.

Thanks

ClassicMad

Imp wrote: »

Just looking at the plans, the fact you have a bungalow seems to be working against you. We were looking at doing a self build, even found a plot, and started looking at what the planners would permit. They probably consider that your current view is the fence (couldn't see the size of it from the plans) so the house would be no worse than the fence. If you had a first floor, then you would have a view other than the fence.

Light wise, the new house is to the North East so it won't cause you any noticable loss of direct sun light.

Seriously, don't think of it as a victory for them or a victory for you. They can apply for anything they want and if it complies with planning, then it has to be approved. The question going through the planner's mind is "If I reject this, will it be overturned at appeal?" If the answer is yes, the planner should approve it. All you can and should be doing is pointing out to the planner how it does not comply with planning guidelines. If they do succeed, I really suggest you try and make friends with them. That way they will tell you if they are carrying out noisy, dusty work and will be considerate to you. If you irritate them during construction, they can cause more of a nuisance to you than you can cause to them. And remember, they will end up as you neighbour.

Has the land actually been bought yet? If not, and you really want to stop development on it, buy it.

The plot of land was the garden of the "farmhouse" that used to preside over acres of farmland until our homes were built 40 years ago and is owned by a very famous college in Cambridge who decided to sell it off 3 yrs ago. As such (answering a previous poster) that house overlooks my "attached" neighbour. The rest of my neighbours aren't really affected as we're in a cul-de-sac and they curve away in the opposite direction. My neighbours bought their bungalow knowing that the farmhouse could see just about everything that goes on in their bungalow (if they choose to).

Fence, well yes, I can see my fence from my windows, but I can also see an awful lot of sky and trees above it too (it's only 5ft). And sun light? Did I complain about sunlight? Nope, I want daylight.. in my opinion a completely separate issue. You can be looking out of a window with the sun on the opposite side of the house and say "you're not getting any sun" but if you bricked that window up, you'd notice a difference, wouldn't you? I would say so.

And to be quite honest, I have very little sympathy with the people that bought that teeny tiny plot of land. They came to look at it at the last minute before the auction... paid £115K for it... didn't check who was responsible for sorting out drainage, have dragged their heels for a long time getting plans done, submitted the last lot of plans without paying and delayed things unnecessarilly, and have now discovered that they don't own enough land to put into place one of the main issues in the outline permission. So, sorry, but no sympathy with anybody who would take out a mortgage with everything up in the air like that.

But the fault lays with the council for giving outline permission in the first place (one planning officer has admitted that). The new house will only be 12ish metres from the back of my property (the actual wall, not fence), when their own guidelines state there should be 25m. Given that, the least the council should do is insist that yes, a property can be built, but make it a bungalow as a compromise to both of us - the wording was single dwelling - not single house.

Unfortunately we have no right of appeal. But what we do have is the right to complain to the Local Government Ombudsman, which we will be doing if a house gets built.

There, rant over.

Dinah93

ClassicMad wrote: »

Hi Dinah

The approval document reads:

Application for approval of the reserved matters shall be made to the Local Planning Authority before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission. Reason - to comply with the requirements of Section 92 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

So, I guess that means your second option then? Could whack a last minute application in on 1st June and still have it considered.... bum.

Thanks

Yes unfortunately I would consider this to be the June 1st option, so they could drag things along an appeal route if they are refused afterwards as well. Not the news you wanted I know.