advice on catholic in-laws

hev_2

As far as I can see...

You have objections to your child being baptised because of strongly held principles.

Your inlaws really want the child baptised because of strongly held principles.

There isn't any common ground. Sorry. I think it is either have the massive row (which will come up again and again) or baptism. I can really see your point and if I shared your beliefs I would also stand my ground. As it is we have recently had DS christened (just so you know where I am coming from - this does not mean I think you should do anything except follow your own beliefs).

How would you/your inlaws view baptism by someone who was a Protestant? If it took the strain off you (you said issues with Catholic church) and they acknowledged the baptism as valid then it might be a way. Or are there any ways you can approach the ideas of baptism that will help you deal with your strong principles against the Catholic church? Perhaps a less traditional church or doing all the arrangements with a lay person? Do you know someone who knows a sympathetic priest who your inlaws would listen to, especially the bit about the pope?

I don't think that there is an easy solution, and it will come up at every family gathering. (human nature, traditional views, religion, inlaws - horrible mix). Eventually they will want the child sprinkled. But perhaps later on you will be in a better position to stand your ground.

Good luck.

speranza

LilMissEmmylou wrote: »

life sucks - the whole point of christianity is that being good isnt enough. Do u think if ur a model person but have no faith God will take you into heaven anyway? No because none of us are perfect and thus being good in earthly terms isnt actually enough, so we need to believe to be free from sin and get into heaven. Sorry just had to say that.

God has personally informed me that anyone using text speak to proselytize is going straight to hell. Just so you know.

jess901

LilMissEmmylou wrote: »

life sucks - the whole point of christianity is that being good isnt enough. Do u think if ur a model person but have no faith God will take you into heaven anyway? No because none of us are perfect and thus being good in earthly terms isnt actually enough, so we need to believe to be free from sin and get into heaven. Sorry just had to say that.

tbh im of the christen them young camp so I wont really comment too much, i see your PILs view but they are also your children and not theirs.

Of course it is not a fear of mine that god will not accept my children into heaven because for me heaven doesn't exist - but for arguments sake, if original sin is not real, at what point does god judge that a child born to non-religious parents is able to decide if he exists and therefore believe in him? Can an all-loving god genuinely punish a child for its parentage? I am worried now that the pope denouncing limbo may not be enough to alleviate our conflicting beliefs!!!

It is my approach that we should educate children on all religions that exist in our world - once armed with all of this knowledge and also knowledge about non-religious approaches to life (e.g. humanism) then they are in a position to make an informed choice about the existence of god.

A child has no knowledge of the world, religion or science so to force them within X belief through modes of church and the religious 'truths' church presents (rather than let them make up their own minds when they are able), is that not simply shaping the child as you wish them to be rather than allowing them to develop into their own person?

Would that be a valid reason to a religious person such as yourself or would that be offensive to your beliefs? I'm confused about how to approach this now!!!

floss2

jess901 wrote: »

.....A child has no knowledge of the world, religion or science so to force them within X belief through modes of church and the religious 'truths' church presents (rather than let them make up their own minds when they are able), is that not simply shaping the child as you wish them to be rather than allowing them to develop into their own person?....

Isn't that why we have god-parents?

I would just show them the bit about the Pope abolishing limbo, and tell them that you will be doing the same as previously. Then run, before the hellfires of damnation fall upon your Godless soul

jess901

floss2 wrote: »

Isn't that why we have god-parents?

I would just show them the bit about the Pope abolishing limbo, and tell them that you will be doing the same as previously. Then run, before the hellfires of damnation fall upon your Godless soul

Hahaha best advice yet - I'll have you as a godparent then :rotfl:

PayPeanuts_2

As an atheist I wouldn't mind having my baby baptised. Because I dont believe in God to me it is just taking the baby to a building, having its head dipped in water and talked at by an old man!

I dont think it is 'joining a religion' because I dont believe in God therefore I dont see how it can be a blessing from God or joining the church 'in Gods eyes'.

I would just allow it (if they're paying) but thats me! Good luck x

hev_2

1. Jess is entitled to bring her child up in any way she chooses as long as she obeys the secular law of the land. There are instructions in the Bible to obey secular rulers and laws no matter how bad they are. It is not a bad thing to do what you think right for your child.

2. If you reject God why should he let you into a heaven that He made?

3. According to Revelations even those who have not been baptised or been Christians will have a chance to speak and be saved (go to heaven)

4. According to the Bible, God is not willing that any should be lost (somewhere in the Gospel of John, can't remember the verse) so that a little child who was not baptised through no fault of their own is unlikely to go to hell.

Mind you, you can find anything in the Bible - except cats! :rolleyes:

Religious stuff will not help the OP. The problem is that both the OP and her inlaws have strong, principled feelings about what is turning out to be an emotive issue.

Jess - if you think your inlaws will be giving you grief about this every time you meet then I suggest you either work out a strategy to deal with it or try and find a baptism ceremony that you can both cope with. If you think that they will eventually respect your wishes then I suggest you just stall for time.

Just had a wicked thought. Next time they raise the issue bring up the possibility that you may baptise them as protestant/muslim/wicca/mormon (whichever is more likely to horrify them) and keep mentioning that every time they go on about a baptism. Eventually they may shut up out of fear that you actually would go through with it. ONLY JOKING THIS COULD BACKFIRE!

bandraoi

If you look into it baptism actually doesn't mean a huge amount in the eyes of the (official) catholic church. It's a start on the road to becoming a catholic, it's like becoming an associate instead of a partner.

Also there is no requirement for a priest or minister to perform baptism, in emergency situations, anyone can do it, the baptism should then be reported to the local priest. You may be able to discuss a loophole based on that with your inlaws?

patchwork_cat

You said in your first post that your inlaws would be happy with a chrisitan ceremony and you don't want a catholic one because of bad experiences. Well could you not compromise on a protestant ceremony. If you don't believe in God then what harm can having the baptism do. Just for the record i am not religious and have not had my children baptised, but do know how easily conflict can occur in a family. No offence, but is this really a control issue - it is my baby and I will do what i want? I really don't want to offend, but think it would be helpful for you to ask yourself this. If the answer is no, then ask yourself what harm it would do to do it and what harm it would do to not do it.

floss2

bandraoi wrote: »

If you look into it baptism actually doesn't mean a huge amount in the eyes of the (official) catholic church. It's a start on the road to becoming a catholic, it's like becoming an associate instead of a partner.

Also there is no requirement for a priest or minister to perform baptism, in emergency situations, anyone can do it, the baptism should then be reported to the local priest. You may be able to discuss a loophole based on that with your inlaws?

Why don't you think about whether you could allow the grandparents to have their own "baptism" ceremony at their home, performed by one of them, then followed by a family meal?

Then it is a way of respecting their beliefs without actually having to move away from your own wish not to have a religious service.