phorm/webwise

Hanco

Helix wrote: »

The ads wouldn't appear on this site but it would use the information that you were looking for personal loans to provide adverts on other sites (even if they have nothing whatsoever to do with personal loans) which have signed up to display ads from phorm. The ads will only appear on sites which have agreed to have the advertising displayed, so you won't start seeing ads on sites which don't have any ads normally (unless they agree to sign up with phorm).

Not that this makes it any better, but there was some confusion at one point that every site you visit would now have these ads displayed.

Hi Helix - I don't think you can be so sure about what are saying above... after all:

1. If the company Phorm / Webwise is run by Kent Ertugrul (the ex 121Media man) then they have a histroy of doing things that PC users did not like (spyware/adware and rootkits - whatever they are LOL) All I know is that they made software go on your PC which was not nice, hard to remove and classed as 'bad' by the makers of software like Norton Anti-Virus.

2. I saw on Channel 4 and BBC News that BT ran trials of the technology which Phorm Webwise will use and they have admitted they did it without telling us (their customers). I don't understand what the difference is between what they did then and interception of phone calls. I don't know how it is different to a situation where Royal Mail opened ALL our letters before delivering them (except that we might notice where as we mostly did not notice what BT did - some people did apparently)

3. What BT did testing the Phorm type of technology is said to have been illegal...

4. It is said by some people that there have been tests of "changing web pages" - i.e. removing the previous content or adding new content. And if they are sitting, as it were, between us all and the interent then they can actually change the web pages to include their own adverts "on the fly" and AFAIK they can do that without your permission.

5. The Government are saying (I think!) that the horid Phorm Webwise thing must be Opt In. However when I saw that Kent man on TV it did not seem like he was saying that, he was saying it was to be Opt Out.

6. When they ask us if we want to Opt In or "some other options" they will try and sell their system as a security service which is absolute bunkum because for most of us with a recent Windows PC (like XP or Vista) we have got systems already available to us. So watch out - they will try and cover up their intentions and use "spin" and "PR" to get us to opt in.

We don't need it, they use tricks, secrecy (some would say lies) to test it and force us to accept it.

I don't see why my money saving approach should be compromised by Phorm and their approach to direct marketing by spying on me.

Why should they be able to read the latest money saving tips just because I am doing so??

Before we know it, they will be "phorming" ways to take advantage of our collective belief in money saving tips and marketing to us individually. I for one would rather do my own research here and use the money saving email instead!!!

No one should be trusting of their intentions or the public plans they state because they keep changing them.

Money savers unite!

:T

Hanco

Hanco

Oh - I forgot - I have not heard if Virgin Media will be giving discounts. Has anyone heard if any other ISP is thinking of giving discounts for this? (BT or Talk Talk/Carphone Warehouse)??

markyboy7

Blimey

I never knew it was so complicated. I tried calling Virgin today but it was taking too long to get through. I'm about to send them an e-mail because I hate waiting for them to answer the phone.

I spoke to my mate again today. He's the one who gave me the link

http://www.inphormationdesk.org/ (This is really interesting)

He's in computer support at work, so is a real expert. He says that they are trying to convince people it's to protect them from dodgy websites, but all they really want to do is spy on them to give them more adverts.

I've read more on the link above and it looks really nasty. I don't want that even with a discount. My mate told me about a petition for the prime minister. It's at

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

I signed it. It was really easy, the first one i've ever signed. It's near the top of the list too, so loads of people must hate this.

Thanks for all your replies. I know a lot more now and you are right. Some things are more important than saving a bit of money.

Hanco

markyboy7 wrote: »

Blimey
Some things are more important than saving a bit of money.

Oh I don't know about that markyboy!! But I have already signed that too as it will ultimately not help consumers save money (IMHO)
:beer:
Hank

OldBear

I, too, have signed the petition and urge everyone here to do similar.

I'd be really interested to know what Martin and the MSE Team think about this Phorm/Webwise scheme, and of BT, Virgin and Talk Talk spying on all the posters here. Is the Team aware that (if what I read is true) that moneysavers' ISPs and Phorm intend to intercept and/or change/forge the cookies this site sends to all visitors to this site?

My own current contract with BT is due to end in a couple of months, so the phone calls from them should start real soon. To find out what's going on for sure, I have written to BT asking what savings will be available for signing up to this service. I doubt I'll renew if this goes ahead, as there appear to be a good many people, (including spyware companies, antivirus companies, lawyers, MPs, MEPs and Members of the House of Lords), who believe this technology is quite illegal, but it might be worth finding out if my ISP will offer me a bribe to take it.

I'll let you all know what they say.

Edit: Just spotted this question above:

Jocatz wrote: »

I do all my banking over the net, and feel very worried if any of that information is going to be at risk?

That's a very good point. I know from what I read that these Phorm people claim to be not able to read encrypted sites, but given this company's past history, and their links to some very dodgy Russian and Chinese spyware groups, I think I would stop online banking and buying if this went ahead.

ElCheapo_2

I can’t believe these household name ISPs are jumping into bed with a company with such a dodgy past and hosting malware for them. Is the government really letting them get away with this? I always thought they wanted a monopoly on snooping.

My friend uses Virgin Cable and the only time his cookies get deleted is when I go visit. If they target adverts to his very jealous trouble and strife based on his surfing habits his computer will go flying out of the nearest window! Nice work for the divorce lawyers.

I don’t care what discounts they might offer. I need this as much as a hole in my head or leprosy! They can still shove it as far as I’m concerned. :mad:

markyboy7

So if these BT trials were illegal, will they be prosecuted and all this stopped?

What laws did they break and have Virgin tried it out?

luvsmoney

Like ELCheapo says "My friend uses Virgin Cable and the only time his cookies get deleted is when I go visit. If they target adverts to his very jealous trouble and strife based on his surfing habits his computer will go flying out of the nearest window! Nice work for the divorce lawyers."
I used to be married to an old !!!!!! like that!!

Helix

markyboy7 wrote: »

So if these BT trials were illegal, will they be prosecuted and all this stopped?

What laws did they break and have Virgin tried it out?

The laws they broke I think were to do with the fact they did all this without informing customers. Even going as far as denying that anything was going on when some customers questioned them.

Virgin have said that any trials that have taken place have been within their own labs with no connection to customers.

ElCheapo_2

luvsmoney wrote: »

Like ELCheapo says "My friend uses Virgin Cable and the only time his cookies get deleted is when I go visit. If they target adverts to his very jealous trouble and strife based on his surfing habits his computer will go flying out of the nearest window! Nice work for the divorce lawyers."
I used to be married to an old !!!!!! like that!!

I hope it was 2nd time lucky for you.

AFIK my friend is faithful and a devoted father but his wife definitely wouldn't approve of his surfing activities. She does pick up the extension to listen in when he is on the phone and she opens his mail. That's ok because she was his choice but Webwise won't be mine and I refuse to have it forced on me by my ISP!